Comments on: 72 ColRegs and a Japanese Destroyer http://gcaptain.com/maritime/blog/72-colregs-and-a-japanese-destroyer/ A Blog About Ships Sun, 07 Mar 2010 22:25:45 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: 72 ColRegs and a Japanese Destroyer [ GCaptain ] http://gcaptain.com/maritime/blog/72-colregs-and-a-japanese-destroyer/comment-page-1/#comment-11849 72 ColRegs and a Japanese Destroyer [ GCaptain ] Sat, 07 Jun 2008 19:21:49 +0000 http://gcaptain.com/maritime/blog/72-colregs-and-a-japanese-destroyer/#comment-11849 [...] 21st 2008 2:04pm [-] From: gcaptain.com [...] [...] 21st 2008 2:04pm [-] From: gcaptain.com [...]

]]> By: Capt. Jack http://gcaptain.com/maritime/blog/72-colregs-and-a-japanese-destroyer/comment-page-1/#comment-7053 Capt. Jack Sat, 23 Feb 2008 00:02:08 +0000 http://gcaptain.com/maritime/blog/72-colregs-and-a-japanese-destroyer/#comment-7053 Boy Im just dieing to hear the whole story on this one. Ten easy steps on how to sink an Aegis destroyer. Boy Im just dieing to hear the whole story on this one. Ten easy steps on how to sink an Aegis destroyer.

]]> By: Richard http://gcaptain.com/maritime/blog/72-colregs-and-a-japanese-destroyer/comment-page-1/#comment-7052 Richard Fri, 22 Feb 2008 23:48:53 +0000 http://gcaptain.com/maritime/blog/72-colregs-and-a-japanese-destroyer/#comment-7052 Additional reports indicate that the accident occurred about the same time as the 04:00 change of watch. Additional reports indicate that the accident occurred about the same time as the 04:00 change of watch.

]]> By: Capt. Jack http://gcaptain.com/maritime/blog/72-colregs-and-a-japanese-destroyer/comment-page-1/#comment-13102 Capt. Jack Fri, 22 Feb 2008 21:02:08 +0000 http://gcaptain.com/maritime/blog/72-colregs-and-a-japanese-destroyer/#comment-13102 Boy Im just dieing to hear the whole story on this one. Ten easy steps on how to sink an Aegis destroyer. Boy Im just dieing to hear the whole story on this one. Ten easy steps on how to sink an Aegis destroyer.

]]> By: Richard http://gcaptain.com/maritime/blog/72-colregs-and-a-japanese-destroyer/comment-page-1/#comment-13101 Richard Fri, 22 Feb 2008 20:48:53 +0000 http://gcaptain.com/maritime/blog/72-colregs-and-a-japanese-destroyer/#comment-13101 Additional reports indicate that the accident occurred about the same time as the 04:00 change of watch. Additional reports indicate that the accident occurred about the same time as the 04:00 change of watch.

]]> By: John Denham http://gcaptain.com/maritime/blog/72-colregs-and-a-japanese-destroyer/comment-page-1/#comment-7048 John Denham Fri, 22 Feb 2008 16:23:20 +0000 http://gcaptain.com/maritime/blog/72-colregs-and-a-japanese-destroyer/#comment-7048 Captain Mike has made a valid point. Navy Regulations require line officers, now called surface warfare specialists, be given ship handling training. mandatory! A C.O. nightmare. But it can be accomplished in a number of safe and effective ways, but one ineffective way is to undertake such education in an unsupervised manner ( O.K. Mr Jones, you got the conn, lets see how you do!) specially in a congested water way or at critical times. I found my merchant marine time provided me little ship handling experience, but I did learn a number of thing that did not work, and, I observed some great seamsnship that I emulated in later life. Two of the best ship handlers I knew had identical views; some can do it and some can't. Select those that can and work with them; talk it over, do a chart drill, read the books ( there are some real good ones, but make sure they are based on experience not simulator philosphy). There are three categories of ship handlers: Great, Good and those that think they are great. I was pleased to be considered good although I clobbered a couple of buoys, damged a crane and ran aground once because I had not planned the job and prepared myself for every probable situation. A great pilot told me, "If you worry about the job enough, it will turn out o.k." Captain Mike has made a valid point. Navy Regulations require line officers, now called surface warfare specialists, be given ship handling training. mandatory! A C.O. nightmare. But it can be accomplished in a number of safe and effective ways, but one ineffective way is to undertake such education in an unsupervised manner ( O.K. Mr Jones, you got the conn, lets see how you do!) specially in a congested water way or at critical times. I found my merchant marine time provided me little ship handling experience, but I did learn a number of thing that did not work, and, I observed some great seamsnship that I emulated in later life. Two of the best ship handlers I knew had identical views; some can do it and some can’t. Select those that can and work with them; talk it over, do a chart drill, read the books ( there are some real good ones, but make sure they are based on experience not simulator philosphy). There are three categories of ship handlers: Great, Good and those that think they are great. I was pleased to be considered good although I clobbered a couple of buoys, damged a crane and ran aground once because I had not planned the job and prepared myself for every probable situation. A great pilot told me, “If you worry about the job enough, it will turn out o.k.”

]]> By: Don’t forget to tell the boss - Admiral Sacked | gCaptain.com http://gcaptain.com/maritime/blog/72-colregs-and-a-japanese-destroyer/comment-page-1/#comment-7046 Don’t forget to tell the boss - Admiral Sacked | gCaptain.com Fri, 22 Feb 2008 13:32:13 +0000 http://gcaptain.com/maritime/blog/72-colregs-and-a-japanese-destroyer/#comment-7046 [...] A short follow up to yesterday’s post: 72 ColRegs and a Japanese Destroyer [...] [...] A short follow up to yesterday’s post: 72 ColRegs and a Japanese Destroyer [...]

]]> By: Capt. Mike http://gcaptain.com/maritime/blog/72-colregs-and-a-japanese-destroyer/comment-page-1/#comment-7038 Capt. Mike Fri, 22 Feb 2008 01:25:44 +0000 http://gcaptain.com/maritime/blog/72-colregs-and-a-japanese-destroyer/#comment-7038 "I have trouble understanding 10 officer on the bridge" I am all for training young officers as long as the job is getting done. Our friends in gray paint have a knack for forgeting the 2nd part. “I have trouble understanding 10 officer on the bridge”

I am all for training young officers as long as the job is getting done. Our friends in gray paint have a knack for forgeting the 2nd part.

]]> By: Capt. Mike http://gcaptain.com/maritime/blog/72-colregs-and-a-japanese-destroyer/comment-page-1/#comment-13100 Capt. Mike Thu, 21 Feb 2008 22:25:44 +0000 http://gcaptain.com/maritime/blog/72-colregs-and-a-japanese-destroyer/#comment-13100 "I have trouble understanding 10 officer on the bridge" <br><br>I am all for training young officers as long as the job is getting done. Our friends in gray paint have a knack for forgeting the 2nd part. “I have trouble understanding 10 officer on the bridge”

I am all for training young officers as long as the job is getting done. Our friends in gray paint have a knack for forgeting the 2nd part.

]]> By: John Denham http://gcaptain.com/maritime/blog/72-colregs-and-a-japanese-destroyer/comment-page-1/#comment-7037 John Denham Thu, 21 Feb 2008 21:05:47 +0000 http://gcaptain.com/maritime/blog/72-colregs-and-a-japanese-destroyer/#comment-7037 Exactly what I signed on for; mishaps at sea. The reported article about a destroyer and a Japanese fishing boat is reminiscent of so many similar incidents that I hardly had to peruse the report. Regardless several reported items immediately attracted my attention: an Aegis class Japanese destroyer; 10 officers on the bridge; Seitko Maru was sighted 2 minutes before being cut in half; 2 crew members were monitoring and using radar and the visibility was 10 km at night. Some may consider these mitigating factors and others special circumstance, but my first reaction in understanding what may have happened was to review the language of Rule 2 of the Navigation Rules, specifically “ which may make departure from these rules necessary to avoids immediate danger.” My experiences, and many were bad, lead me to believe that accidents are caused, they don’t just happen. Most of my years at sea were in Asian waters mostly in command of three different ships. However in every ship I was in we had at least one narrow escape in the approaches to or in the Uraga Channel to Yokosuka, Yokohama and Tokyo, Japan. That entire area should be classified a” Rule 2 Special Zone.” With as many as 50 radar contacts and maybe 20 vessels in sight one must quickly determine is it make the ETA or just arrive without mishap. Specifically, I have trouble understanding 10 officer on the bridge unless the captain was holding an awards ceremony or qualifying watch officers. A bridge organization and management concept is to have adequate personnel to accomplish safe navigation and operations, and no unnecessary on lookers. Good ship management precludes unnecessary visitors on navigation bridges in times of sensitive operations. In a warship, specially in an Aegis class destroyer that is the equivalent of 100 Radio Shacks and the Los Angeles International Airport Control Tower, it is inconceivable that only two crewmen were monitoring surface search radars and observing surface traffic. The purpose of AEGIS is electronic surveillance. Just today an Aegis class ship blasted a satellite out of existence 130 miles away. Lastly to have sighted a vessel two minutes earlier and then cut it in half can only happen if it is rammed. Regardless whether privileged or not, to cut, what appears to be a well constructed steel hulled vessel in half is a major achievement and requires considerable force; therefore one might consider there was no doubt involved. Let us now consider some of the possible special circumstances. For those of you that have read my novel “DD891" about 30 years of destroyer life, you will recall the role of the Commodore; a senior officer embarked to supervise and coordinate the operations of others etc., and also the skippers immediate boss. If ATAGO was completing readiness training or undergoing an operational inspection or tests an embarked senior and staff would be on board; supervising, observing and maybe interfering. That may account for the 10 officers on the bridge. Japanese mariners and warrior are dedicated, educated, proud, respectful and loyal seaman to a fault. Disgrace is the worst sin and disrespect an unforgivable error. The concept of the BRM includes voicing concern about decisions and actions that may be faulty. In the U.S. we feel no compunction of telling the skipper, “ HEY CAP, YOU FUCKED UP!” Some of our concepts in management and operations are foreign to others. Whether others have or will adjust or not is an academic exercise and will be with us for some time. But the safety of life at sea is a pledge we sailors have made to each other and it must be enforced in the every day practice of seaman. This is my initial review of this unfortunate mishap that was caused by any number of things. I do not have all the facts but hopefully will get an opportunity to study them and learn some valuable lessons. Unfortunately, I fear we know the facts and are again viewing a situation that should have never occurred. I invite my fellow mariners, seafarers and afficionados to join in the comments and submit your views. Exactly what I signed on for; mishaps at sea. The reported article about a destroyer and a Japanese fishing boat is reminiscent of so many similar incidents that I hardly had to peruse the report. Regardless several reported items immediately attracted my attention: an Aegis class Japanese destroyer; 10 officers on the bridge; Seitko Maru was sighted 2 minutes before being cut in half; 2 crew members were monitoring and using radar and the visibility was 10 km at night. Some may consider these mitigating factors and others special circumstance, but my first reaction in understanding what may have happened was to review the language of Rule 2 of the Navigation Rules, specifically “ which may make departure from these rules necessary to avoids immediate danger.”

My experiences, and many were bad, lead me to believe that accidents are caused, they don’t just happen.

Most of my years at sea were in Asian waters mostly in command of three different ships. However in every ship I was in we had at least one narrow escape in the approaches to or in the Uraga Channel to Yokosuka, Yokohama and Tokyo, Japan. That entire area should be classified a” Rule 2 Special Zone.” With as many as 50 radar contacts and maybe 20 vessels in sight one must quickly determine is it make the ETA or just arrive without mishap.

Specifically, I have trouble understanding 10 officer on the bridge unless the captain was holding an awards ceremony or qualifying watch officers. A bridge organization and management concept is to have adequate personnel to accomplish safe navigation and operations, and no unnecessary on lookers. Good ship management precludes unnecessary visitors on navigation bridges in times of sensitive operations.

In a warship, specially in an Aegis class destroyer that is the equivalent of 100 Radio Shacks and the Los Angeles International Airport Control Tower, it is inconceivable that only two crewmen were monitoring surface search radars and observing surface traffic. The purpose of AEGIS is electronic surveillance. Just today an Aegis class ship blasted a satellite out of existence 130 miles away.

Lastly to have sighted a vessel two minutes earlier and then cut it in half can only happen if it is rammed. Regardless whether privileged or not, to cut, what appears to be a well constructed steel hulled vessel in half is a major achievement and requires considerable force; therefore one might consider there was no doubt involved.

Let us now consider some of the possible special circumstances. For those of you that have read my novel “DD891″ about 30 years of destroyer life, you will recall the role of the Commodore; a senior officer embarked to supervise and coordinate the operations of others etc., and also the skippers immediate boss. If ATAGO
was completing readiness training or undergoing an operational inspection or tests an embarked senior and staff would be on board; supervising, observing and maybe interfering. That may account for the 10 officers on the bridge.

Japanese mariners and warrior are dedicated, educated, proud, respectful and loyal seaman to a fault. Disgrace is the worst sin and disrespect an unforgivable error. The concept of the BRM includes voicing concern about decisions and actions that may be faulty. In the U.S. we feel no compunction of telling the skipper, “ HEY CAP, YOU FUCKED UP!” Some of our concepts in management and operations are foreign to others. Whether others have or will adjust or not is an academic exercise and will be with us for some time. But the safety of life at sea is a pledge we sailors have made to each other and it must be enforced in the every day practice of seaman.

This is my initial review of this unfortunate mishap that was caused by any number of things. I do not have all the facts but hopefully will get an opportunity to study them and learn some valuable lessons. Unfortunately, I fear we know the facts and are again viewing a situation that should have never occurred. I invite my fellow mariners, seafarers and afficionados to join in the comments and submit your views.

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