ATB AIS dimensions

**NAUTICART** · October 14th, 2011, 08:56 AM

Originally Posted by cappy208

This morning I tried to go into the set up and change the dimensions. what a PITA!

FURUNO if you are reading.... Why not have the ability to have a dimension 1 selection and a dimension 2 selection for us vessels that tow in two modes (or in my case, with a 430' barge, or just my 125' tug?

This seems to be a growing problem, especially with the advances in technology and the reduction in conventional towing vessels.

HEY CAPPY, MAYBE YOU CAN GET SOME USER FEEDBACK FROM THE FURUNO FORUM

**captbbrucato** · November 8th, 2011, 01:08 PM

"All vessel dimensions are to be in meters and are to be for the ‘TUG ALONE’. At this time ATB’s are not permitted to include the length of the barge in their calculations. The USCG agrees that for safety it should be included but we are prevented from including it due to the current regulations regarding AIS. "
FWIW we just received this notice that we'll have to comply with the information regarding LOA transmitted by AIS must reflect the tug only. It's amazing that common sense doesn't have a place in the regulatory world. Even though there are USCG personnel who readily agree it would be safer, the rules don't allow us to transmit our true length overall, where is the logic in that? How about a judgement call from the MSO/Commandant, give us a policy letter that would allow us to protect ourselves from ugly surprises when meeting a tow well in excess of its broadcast LOA? Too much to ask?

**NAUTICART** · November 8th, 2011, 08:31 PM

Originally Posted by captbbrucato

"All vessel dimensions are to be in meters and are to be for the ‘TUG ALONE’. At this time ATB’s are not permitted to include the length of the barge in their calculations. The USCG agrees that for safety it should be included but we are prevented from including it due to the current regulations regarding AIS. "
FWIW we just received this notice that we'll have to comply with the information regarding LOA transmitted by AIS must reflect the tug only. It's amazing that common sense doesn't have a place in the regulatory world. Even though there are USCG personnel who readily agree it would be safer, the rules don't allow us to transmit our true length overall, where is the logic in that? How about a judgement call from the MSO/Commandant, give us a policy letter that would allow us to protect ourselves from ugly surprises when meeting a tow well in excess of its broadcast LOA? Too much to ask?

The logic is in previous post......................If you are running light tug, for example, you don't want anyone in traffic 'reading' you as a tug/tow. Although lighting arrangement's, radio communications etc. should verify. The "type of ship and cargo" is a numeric code ( IMO SOLAS or 46 U.S.C. 2101 ). For example you are actually engaged in towing and length of
the tow exceeds 200 meters (656 ft) or breadth exceeds 25 meters. The up shot is, you are transmitting that you are a tug, but code better reflects your configuration.

As for vessels that different, or not up to date destinations for example, Doug is right. "AIS programming decisions based on prudent seamanship..." you got it, not everyone will participate in taking time to keep everything up until it is mandated. After all, if the captain/crew/company care, it reflects.

Yes it would make better "sense" to relay the overall dimensions, but not all crews, again, keep that "up to date"... You can find vessels with destinations from 4 ports ago.... and say your ATB docks at berth #xxx and you run light tug only to another dock, (to get stores, water etc.) you are still reflecting you overall dimensions"

That was just example, but there are many instances where "dammit - lets have it one way or another" I totally agree, but in the instance of protect ourselves from ugly surprises when meeting a tow well in excess of its broadcast LOA someone "well" in excess" should be identified way prior, I don't think you will find a Commando decision soon, like channel markers for instance, they go out, but you still have backup of charts. AIS are not that reliable now, In my opinion to be considered more than an "aid"..

So yes in common sense it would be safer ? If everyone agrees, then they should start by voluntarily keeping it up and continuously accurate for now. Habits are not arbitrary decisions, there a repeated practice. But if your not in the "habit" ( or mandated ) people forget, and unfortunately that will always happen at the wrong time.

**captbbrucato** · November 9th, 2011, 06:05 AM

I certainly can agree that broadcasting your true length overall while running a light tug and then extending it after pinning up is a logical thing. The rules don't permit (AFAIK) for that kind of latitude, at least not yet.. There isn't any regulatory provision to allow the "prudent" thing in this case. Yes it's an aid and a very useful one but restricting us from using it to broadcast our true dimensions makes it less so. I agree that keeping the AIS updated properly should be the mandate, IMHO.

**Capt Carl** · February 6th, 2012, 02:12 AM

People, AIS has only been in force for a few years. Just remember what we all did (if you are old enough) before AIS came aboard our vessels. Signals!!! Whatever the vessel even tugs and tow or free running we used day/night signals. Remember?

**tillettso** · February 6th, 2012, 05:15 AM

Unless I'm familiar with a particular vessel, I err on the side of caution and act accordingly. My vessel's AIS is integrated into the chart plotter, which I find very useful. But I also find that many vessels dimensions aren't represented correctly. Prudent seamanship cannot be replaced.

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