Tug Boat Manning

[Tugs]

I hope when the smoke clears with the up coming Inspection of Tugs that there will finally have a regulation on manning of Tugs. And I am not talking about the B.S. that all of these companies come up with.

What do you all think should be required? Here is my thought, mind you I am a Chief Engineer.

Manning for Sea Going ATB's

Captain
Chief Mate
Second Mate
3 AB / ABT
1 OS
Chief Engineer
2 Assistant Engineers
QMED
and now for the most important
COOK

I last sailed for Maritrans / OSG in the GOM and while I had a licensed Assistand Engineer, there were times that I had to work many hours of UNPAID O/T just to keep up on the all of the equipment on the barge. I considered myself lucky that I had a ABT that enjoyed working with me and that I could trust him to do quite a lot by him self.

There were times that I had to leave the ER un-maned and go up on the barge to do repairs. Now if I had had the extra AE this would have been avoided.

I will be looking forward to what everyone thinks.

Be Safe,

Tugs

[rshrew]

Not sure you need that many people, I have done ocean tows with a cook/ab, Ab/engineer, capt, & 2 mates and that was plenty.

[Cal]

If they go with that many people on a boat in this day and age the companies will have the Jones Act done away with in short order and the crews will become a mix of licensed foreign officers and Filipino's for the res of the crew. Even with the company I work for if we ever did a trip over 600 miles they added a mate and in some cases added an assistant engineer, they didn't double up on the duties such as AB/Engineer to fill a deck position and an engineering position. If you have a decent crew (qualified, experienced, and motivated) 5 is sufficient, but that is a MINIMUM. I haven't seen it on ocean tows, but I've witnessed boats handling barges with two personnel, a Captain and an AB/Engineer. TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE. I don't care if it's a local shift or not, that's just downright stupid. The minimum I have experienced for an ocean tow with an oil barge is 7 people. 5 for the tug and 2 for the barge. I would think it reasonable to add a Mate and an Assistant Engineer. The 6 and 6 schedule in the wheelhouse has been proven time and time again to be a less than stellar idea but gets justified over and over. I think it was sort of a slap in the face for the AMO to sponsor, and invest, in a new sleep study to prove that the schedule is workable and sufficient and lo and behold the results came back that it's not, just like every other sleep study that's been done. While I am somewhat ambivalent to the engineering aspect, it still makes sense to have a qualified person on watch to monitor and maintain the operation of the vessel. I've worked with good deckhands, but that's all they will ever be and there is good reason for it. I know I would be more comfortable knowing that someone is actually checking the engine room and able to address any issues that may arise. I have had alarms going off and after 3 to 5 minutes I call the deckhand to find out what the status is and they are unaware of any problem because the TV is too loud or they are waiting for the engineer to roll out of the rack and go address it.

[Tugs]

I have worked on Tugs with only one Engineer, Local 333 out of N.Y. Harbor. One time I was filling in on a Maritrans Tugs that only carried a Chief. We had been on for Three Weeks and were heading to the dock for Crew Change, I was up in the wheel house when the deckhand that was making rounds in the E.R. while I was off watch called the Wheel House and said that we LOST the PME. Well, I knew that both engines were running so I made my way down below. Once I got there the Deckhand is running around yelling that we lost the engine. I asked him how he knew and he pointed to the Tach on the panel that was on the engine, (Cats). Now this tach had not worked for the entire three weeks that I was there. There was another tach that worked in the E.R. Log Booth. My first thought was, "AND I SLEPT WHEN THIS DECKHAND WAS WATCHING THE E.R.". I can laugh about it now but it really floored me back then.

As for the Manning that I listed, I was talking about Large Sea Going ATB's. When I worked Harbor Tugs, I had no problem with being the only engineer but these rigs are a little different. With a two man or one man engine room how are you supposed to get any of the required work done on the barge? The way I see it there are two choices leaving the vessel while underway and taking the chance that nothing will go wrong or work off watch and be way over on work hours, which my last company tracked?

The rigs that I worked on were the same size as some of the tankers that my company had, one rig was bigger than some of the tankers.

[seadog!]

On a 3-watch rotation are you prepared for 8 hours pay rather than 12?,
or do you want to work 8 hours and have the company give you 4 hours pay for not working?

Who in the hell can sleep 16 hours a day?

[KennyW1983]

I dont see a problem with that for the big ATBs that are coming out. Thats about what we had when I was at TECO Ocean Shipping a 9 or 10 man crew was normal. Where I work now if we have a tow over 600 miles the company usually has the crew set up like this: 1 Capt 2 Mates 1 C/E 1 AB/utility and 1 AB. It works for us. And while running as a 2nd mate we work a 4/8 watch and still get our normal pay. I might not be able to sleep 16 hours a day but you better believe I will be in my room for 14 out of those 16 hours!!

[Tugs]

On a 3-watch rotation are you prepared for 8 hours pay rather than 12?,
or do you want to work 8 hours and have the company give you 4 hours pay for not working?

Who in the hell can sleep 16 hours a day?

Well, I know that OSG does not have any problem paying the Decky's for a 12 hour Day when they only work 8 hours at sea. It's like anything else, the good companies will pay just enough to keep the people that they want.

[dougpine]

A three watch system leaves the deck officers four hours for overtime. Did it in Hawai'i with Sause Bros., and it was nice. It ain't all about the money. If you kill yourself doing 6 and 6 your whole career you'll not get to enjoy retirement.

[kfj]

A tug with a crew of 12? Sounds like US Military manning.

[cappy208]

A tug with a crew of 12? Sounds like US Military manning.

No... It actually sounds like how tugs were manned in the 80's, with appropriate sized crews, and conditions!!

[kfj]

Ive always wanted some kind of engineer. Being a deckhand/engineer sucks but ive learned a lot from it.

[Cal]

As for the Manning that I listed, I was talking about Large Sea Going ATB's.

My apologies, I'm thinking smaller these days, not larger. One has to keep in mind why these vessels are being built and utilized, in particular, to avoid the manning requirements of a ship. I overlooked that in my thoughts and response.

On a 3-watch rotation are you prepared for 8 hours pay rather than 12?,
or do you want to work 8 hours and have the company give you 4 hours pay for not working?

Who in the hell can sleep 16 hours a day?

You would be surprised at how many I've seen that could! LOL! Do I want the company to pay me for 4 hours of not working? Nope, I wouldn't expect that, but since when has there been only 8 hours of work on a vessel? 8 hours on watch in the wheelhouse, is one thing. What about the myriad of other things that can be accomplished without a constant focus out the window and safely navigating the vessel? I'm not allergic to a needle gun or paint brush. What about actually maintaining the vessels and/or improving them?

Another perspective to keep in mind. In this day and age of pseudo-responsibility, where every accident is preventable and the mariner is guilty until proven innocent, how do you think the 12 hour rule is going to be utilized? Human's are perfect and someone must have been negligent, they must be held accountable. In theory, if you did everything right, if you could prove that no action other than what you took could have prevented an incident, they will still be able to hang your ass out to dry with the 12 hour rule working 6 and 6. Think about it...

[captbbrucato]

No... It actually sounds like how tugs were manned in the 80's, with appropriate sized crews, and conditions!!

I started on tugs as a deckhand in the early 70's and never saw a crew (on an inland tug) larger than 8 men, and that was for sand and gravel work (Captain, Mate, Eng,4 deckhands and a cook). Even many coastal tugs only carried 7 men. The standard crew has been 5, Capt, Mate, 2 dechands and an Engineer (6 if there was a cook).
These days, the ATB crew compliment is 7 for my outfit, Captain, Ch/Mate, 2nd Mate, C/Eng, 2 OS/PIC's, and 1 AB. We could use another AB, or maybe even an AB/QMED. (In the case of my boat the 2nd is licensed and a fully qualified M.O.T., he does not stand a steering watch)
But I don't see 10 men happening in my outfit anytime soon, I could be wrong in the end, it wouldn't be the first time..
If every outfit was required to crew the same way and if we were able to increase the number of people on board we'd be so short of truly qualified people, we'd never get off the boat.
The watch rotation is going to continue to be a sticking point, wages for a 3 watch system may well suffer for the near term if that becomes the rule. That said, if everyone has to do it, the playing field will be level and the extra manning cost will be the same for all and passed along the same way fuel and compliance costs are now.
I expect the new rules will have a material effect on our situations in the near term, but not to the extent of increasing crew compliments by 30%. Not yet anyway. Just my 2 cents.

[captbbrucato]

"In theory, if you did everything right, if you could prove that no action other than what you took could have prevented an incident, they will still be able to hang your ass out to dry with the 12 hour rule working 6 and 6. Think about it..."

They're gonna hang you no matter what hours you worked. The 12 hour rule adds some rancid mayo to the shit-sandwich you'll be expected to eat.

[injunear]

I think that on the Crowley ATBs, they carry 9 on the Cat powered units and 10 on the HFO units.

[captbbrucato]

I think that on the Crowley ATBs, they carry 9 on the Cat powered units and 10 on the HFO units.

I believe that you're correct. Of course Crowley would have a proper crew, if I'm not mistaken their boats are full SOLAS, equipped and compliant.

[kfj]

The new crowley ones are over 200tons and no idea what the next class will be. They have said the Ocean class nonatb tug will be under 1600tons

[injunear]

I believe that you're correct. Of course Crowley would have a proper crew, if I'm not mistaken their boats are full SOLAS, equipped and compliant.

The first 6 were just less than 300 tons, uninspected and were SOLAS. The HFO boats are inspected. All of their ATBs are SOLAS. I haven't heard anything about the 750s except that they're AMO crewed.