Reply With QuoteDespite the fact that is illegal (read the Constitution regarding taxation without representation) the foreign nationals I know in the Gulf, DO pay US taxes.
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gCaptain Crew
Factual Error No 1
"They have all those positions filled with foreign nationals on the KINGFISHER and are only running those ads to show to the USCG that they are "trying" to recruit Americans for those positions."
I am US Citizen with a US Licence onboard the Kingfisher as First Officer. I have been on here nearly a year.
Last edited by todd.harter; February 7th, 2009 at 01:42 PM.
gCaptain Crew
Factual Error No. 2
Despite the fact that is illegal (read the Constitution regarding taxation without representation) the foreign nationals I know in the Gulf, DO pay US taxes.
Top Contributer
So Todd, please answer for me...
First: why is Veolia runnings ads for all positions and why every six months or so? Why are they running an ad for chief mate if you have the job? Are they so unhappy with the crew they have right now that they plan to cashier the lot of you in one fell swoop? Are they buying another vessel? Aren't they bringing the VIKING POSEIDON to the Gulf from Norway soon? Is Eidsvik going to hire US mariners to man it and Veolia is just helping them find officers and crew?
from RigZone:
"The vessel will commence an eight year contract with Veolia ES Special Services Inc when the sea trials of the offshore crane are completed. The contract has a value for the firm period of more than NKr 1 billion."
Secondly: besides yourself, how many other US citizens are in the marine crew? Is the master an American?
Thirdly: does or does not your vessel have a letter from the USCG Foreign and Offshore Vessels Division granting waivers for foreign citizens to man the vessel? Does that letter state "We have determined that Veolia is making good faith attempts to locate and hire available U.S. workers. Veolia is encouraged to continue advertising throughout the year to hire qualified U.S. workers as the become available."?
Veolia's ad on RigZone reads quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=small align=right width="25%">Employer: </TD><TD class=small colSpan=3>Veolia Environmental Services</TD></TR><!--<TR> <TD ALIGN=right CLASS="small" WIDTH="25%">Job Category: </TD> <TD CLASS="small" COLSPAN=3>Maritime</TD></TR>--><TR><TD class=small vAlign=top align=right width="25%">Desired Expertise:</TD><TD class=small colSpan=3>Captain, SMS/ISPS, Oceans/All STCW Certifications, USCG Master Unlimited. </TD></TR><TR><TD class=small align=right width="25%">Experience:</TD><TD class=small colSpan=3>2+ years</TD></TR><TR><TD class=small align=right width="25%">Education:</TD><TD class=small colSpan=3>High School/Secondary</TD></TR><TR><TD class=small align=right width="25%">Location:</TD><TD class=small colSpan=3>United States</TD></TR><TR><TD class=small align=right width="25%">Date Updated:</TD><TD class=small colSpan=3>1/30/2009</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=4>
Job Description:
</TD></TR><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #a7bbcf 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5px; BORDER-TOP: #a7bbcf 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #a7bbcf 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 5px; BORDER-BOTTOM: #a7bbcf 1px solid" colSpan=4>Experienced in Operation of DP vessels. Vessels engaged in oilfield subsea construction and dive support operations. Responsible for vessels safe and efficient operation, directing and supervising crew, vessel maintenance and compliance with the requirements of all regulatory and statutory authorities. Solid knowledge of SMS/ISPS. Has to be in possession of DP certificate. </TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=4>
Applicant Requirements:
</TD></TR><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #a7bbcf 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5px; BORDER-TOP: #a7bbcf 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #a7bbcf 1px solid; PADDING-TOP: 5px; BORDER-BOTTOM: #a7bbcf 1px solid" colSpan=4>In order to apply for this position, applicants MUST meet the following criteria. If your resume does not match these criteria, you will not be able to apply for this position.
Location: North America
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
unquote:
I am an U.S. citizen unlimited tonnage USCG & Vanuatu licensed master, unlimited DPO, saturation dive and rov experience in the Gulf of Mexico, its been 20 years since I first sailed as captain, I can drive a large vessel in, out and all around Port Fourchon, I have knowledge of SMS & ISPS...did I miss anything?
I replied to Veolia in 2007 when they ran this exact same ad but then their port captain in Lafayette told me that they weren't actually looking to hire anyone but rather that "we're running those ads because we have to". If you're right, then he must have been to the dentist that morning and was still under the effects of the Novicate when I spoke with him. So if I am terribly wrong, tell your employers if they really want to replace the master they have (who must be a non citizen or they wouldn't be looking) with a U.S. master right now that you found a guy on gCaptain and they can send me a private message to me here...
Fourth: How come however that I don't think I'm gonna hear from nobody!?!
Last edited by c.captain; February 7th, 2009 at 06:21 PM.
Top Contributer
Regarding taxes...
do they really have full US Income and FICA taxes withheld from their checks every month? If so, they file U.S. Federal Income tax returns every April 15th?
Old Salt
c.captain - You bring up a very interesting point in response to todd.harter's comments. I am very curious as to the outcome of this one!
gCaptain Crew
CCaptain - Check your PM
Top Contributer
I am running two parallel threads on this topic which makes no sense since this is the one getting the attention. In any event, my thread in the youBlog section includes this letter since several of you asked me to compose one.
It is offered to anyone here to use in whole or in part to send to whomever you wish although I just hope it will be sent to as many places one can think might actually care about all this BS:
the sections in [brackets] are for use in sending the letter to a member of the House of Representatives:
date
The Honorable Senator [Congressman/Congresswoman]_____________________
State of _______________, [___th Congressional District]
United States Senate [House of Representatives]
Washington, D.C.
Dear Mr. Senator / Madam Senator [Mr./Madam] _______________
In this time of severe economic recession in our Nation the importance of employment for U.S. citizens is of critical nature. The loss of employment for any Americans means reduced spending by families for goods and services which supports our economic health. Further, lost employment opportunities for Americans means reduced revenue to our Government from payroll taxes. Of no less importance, Americans with good honest work to perform are prouder citizens which makes for a stronger and better country.
I mention all of this because there is a situation occurring in the U.S. today where valuable skilled jobs which by statute and regulation are reserved for U.S. citizens are in fact being filled by foreign nationals. These are high paying industrial jobs in a sector of our Nation’s economy which is critical for both energy and military security. I speak of the U.S. offshore energy maritime support industry in the U.S. Gulf of Mexico from which 25% of our domestically produced oil and 40% of our own natural gas comes.
The specific situation is that in recent years at least 25 vessels from foreign countries (mostly Norway) have been brought into the Gulf of Mexico to work as specialized support ships for oil and gas exploration, development and production. Foreign built and even foreign flagged vessels are not prohibited from working in the U.S. Outer Continental Shelf (OCS) waters , but within the applicable laws which govern the employment of workers on the OCS are specific restrictions that offshore workers including officers and crew of the vessels working in its waters are to be U.S. citizens just as with any employment on land in the U.S.A. However through legal loopholes and subterfuge on the part of the owners of these foreign vessels, and/or lack of enforcement by the US Coast Guard (the Federal Agency with responsibility to enforce these laws), these particular foreign vessels are operating in our sovereign waters with 100% foreign crewmembers. This is in direct contravention to the intent of the employment protections provided in the Outer Continental Shelf Act (43USC1331 & 33CFRpart141). As a result, no fewer than 1000 U.S. Merchant Mariners are denied high paying skilled employment. One means the vessel owners use to get through loopholes in the law is the use of the tired excuse that there are no American workers with the skills to man these ships. This is a falsehood and as a certified and experienced American Merchant Mariner, I am available and ready to serve given the opportunity presently denied to me.
To close, I need not emphasize more the loss which occurs when U.S. citizens are left unemployed. As we see too clearly each day now, it greatly harms our economy, our families and the very fabric of our great Nation. I urge you as a member of The Senate Subcommittee on Surface Transportation and Merchant Marine Infrastructure, Safety & Security [House Subcommittee on Coast Guard & Maritime Transportation] to exercise your oversight in this matter and investigate the U.S. Coast Guard Foreign and Offshore Vessel Division in the Coast Guard’s Washington D.C. headquarters. Look into how it is granting foreign manning waivers to vessel owners without investigation on their own part and how both foreign and domestic vessel owners are circumventing the intention of the law which is allowing economic harm to come to American workers and our Nation.
Thank you very much for taking the time to read this letter and for giving this matter your consideration.
Yours sincerely,
__________________
& btw, don't just send letters to your own members of Congress...you can sent letters to any member of the two subcommittees which have oversight over affairs maritime. I know that is a lot of letters to send but that it is very likely what it will take to get action from Washington!
Thanks to each and every one of my fellow American mariners for your support and action...
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Last edited by c.captain; February 14th, 2009 at 06:53 AM.
Top Contributer
Originally Posted by c.captain
Ever get an answer??
Tengineer
Old Salt
c.captain,
While you're writing congress please include a line about this BS that's costing us jobs and the crews safety:
Ensco - More Criminal Than Paul Watson
Top Contributer
To answer your question Teng...I did get PM'd from Todd but he didn't answer any of my questions directly although I'm willing to have a dialog with him. My statements are not based on personal knowledge (ie. I ain't a disgruntled ex employee) but on de facto evidence I've collected. Perhaps things might not be quite so black and white as I have been believing. I hope Todd will enlighten me with "the straight dope".
I am encouraged to find that there is an American officer on her...but are there any more?
Who I never have ever heard from is Veolia management after I reply to their RigZone solicitations which I have done several times over the past two years. When I spoke with that port captain in Lafayette in 2007, it wasn't because he called me!
We'll just have to see what I hear from Todd, but I reserve the right to remain sceptical until proved otherwise.
Old Salt
I am not so sure that the Constitution directly addresses taxation without representation. It WAS, however a catylist for fomenting the revolution.
gCaptain Greenhorn
They do now starting on the 1st of January 2009. Previously all the Foreign national seamen working here in the gulf were Tax exempt from the US and their own country if they were gone for more than 6 months, either Canada or England, including the Filipinos did not have to pay taxes either here or there. Additionally they will be required to file by April 15th! 2010.
Top Contributer
So methinks that there might not be quite so many furiners so ready and willing to make that flight to NoLa since we know the great distain they hold the U.S. in! If you hate the U.S. your more than welcome to go work somewhere else...
Btw, thanks for this info. I had not heard of this before and will investigate if further. There was something that the great Winston Churchill once said about not yet at the beginning of the end but maybe at the end of the beginning...
<O</O
One can just hope..<O
Last edited by c.captain; February 12th, 2009 at 11:50 PM.
Top Contributer
GOM
I do not believe that what you say is accurate about quality of vessels or mariners between European and American. Companies like Otto Candies are building purpose build subsea IMR vessels in US yards based on European designs (Dutch) and fitted with high quality state of the art equipment (Siemen's AC Frequency drives, etc...). They have built the CHLOE & GRANT CANDIES and the ROSS CANDIES is coming in 2010. They are being operated as US flagged Jones Act qualified vessels with US mariners.
Similarly, Global Industries bought the OLYMPIC ORION last year and renamed her GLOBAL ORION which is working now in the GoM. What makes her unique is that Global Industries chose to take the unusual step of replacing the Norwegian mariners on her with Americans even thought they could have received the same waiver letters being given to Veolia and CalDive. These are unlimited tonnage ship mariners who to the best of my knowledge are doing the job every bit as well as any European would. Certainly, Global ran the numbers before making their decision to go this route and you can bet your boots that the numbers worked to go the way they did because as a publicly traded company, Global has to justify their decisions to their shareholders.
Lastly, Hornbeck took delivery of the HOS ACHIEVER from the Netherlands last year which is a DP3 state of the art subsea vessel and I have heard that she has a US crew on her as well although I do not know too much else about her at this time except that I've seen her in Fourchon and she is one of the most awesome vessels I have ever seen in there!
There is absolutely no reason whatsoever that the status quo must remain in order to maintain quality. It just takes a willingness on the part of the companies with the foreign manned vessels in the GoM to do what they are supposed to do under the law. Since they are more interested in finding and using the loopholes in those laws, it is up to the Congress and hopefully our new Administration to tell those companies that things are going to be run a bit differently in the Gulf from now on and if they want to have access to our market they have to play by our rules.
Last edited by c.captain; February 13th, 2009 at 02:25 AM.
Top Contributer
WHAT HAPPENED TO GOM? He was here a minute ago?
gCaptain Greenhorn
In stead of demanding a non-us citizen lockout to ensure that you keeps on living in a glassbowl; try to compete with them on standard, safe working and effective. foreign european sailors are not cheaper. often acctualy more expensive to keep onboard.
I've been working in Us waters and are not impressed by local standards.
Top Contributer
I beg to differ with you WW...note what I wrote just before your post concerning the GLOBAL ORION. An all US crew all with unlimited tonnage licenses, DPO certs and extensive offshore operations experience in the Gulf of Mexico.
Don't try to tell me for one minute that high quality American mariners can't be found to replace the Norwegians, Brits, et all here in the Gulf. And you are spot on when you say that we are now less expensive to employ. All that is required is to make the opportunities available and the mariners will come.
Obviously, Global Industries knows this and is doing the right thing with that vessel (even though I still call BS on them for having two Norwegian ships on charter working here in the Gulf with foreign crews)
and FYI, on my blog at http://americanprofessionalmariners.blogspot.com/ is the new graphic version of the Hall of Shame including photos of each offending vessel previously listed...something you can use as a program the next time you are in Fourchon to tell the players apart.
Last edited by c.captain; February 13th, 2009 at 07:31 AM.
gCaptain Greenhorn
"foreign"
"In stead of demanding a non-us citizen lockout to ensure that you keeps on living in a glassbowl; try to compete with them on standard, safe working and effective. foreign european sailors are not cheaper. often acctualy more expensive to keep onboard.
I've been working in Us waters and are not impressed by local standards. "
"non-us citizen lockout" - Why not -Works for Austrailia.
"standard, safe working and effective" - 2 words "Piper Alpha", But, I have worked on some larger foreign DSV's with Norwegians or Brit's (the 2 don't mix well from my expirience) and have seen some excellent standards; safe working and effective crews when it suits them from 6am till 6Pm; after that Katy Bar the Door -
"Often more expensive" -I'd have to agree, as a US Master onboard a foreign flag DSV, I can say for certain, Their day rate is near twice the going rate of many if not most US companies operating US flag OSV's.
Top Contributer
I recently went to Norway and toured several Island Offshore vessels and the Rolls Royce deck machinery and propulsion plants. I went over there particularly to learn the standards and training employed by the maritime training center in Aalesund to possibly implement those standards at Chouest. Mr.Gary is interested in employing an AHTS simulator. Mr.Havard Ulstein (with Island) took me to the Aker and Ulstein shipyards to tour several Island new builds. That is some nice vessels, but you're looking at 35% more cost to build. The markets are different in Norway. The vessels with the most bells and whistles get the job, but in the GOM, customers look for value for the dollar more than anything.
Talking to the captains, they make around $1500/day when converting the NOK to dollars, but more than half is tax and a hamburger and coke is twenty bucks in Norway....plus it sucks.
I was impressed with the whole maritime culture there. We can easily compete with these guys; you have to remember their mentality and how their whole country is wrapped around that culture.
HOS is paying $800/day for Master on the large specialty vessel HOS Acheiver. That is a fair day rate for an unlimited master.
gCaptain Greenhorn
The Ships built in Norway are Government subsidized aren't they?
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