Three year apprentice Mate training program?

**Capt Ryan** · May 10th, 2012, 12:01 PM

Hello. I am in the process of mapping out my career path.
I currently run small diving and fishing boats in Southern California with a 50 ton master near coastal and a few other endorsements as a second captain/ deckhand/ galley and whatever else I can do to get out on the water and build time.I will have the accrued sea time for a 100 ton after this season. I am about to step up to the big leagues and go to the GOM ( that's my goal, anyways). My next cert is STCW- I will have that by July. My question is about these "three year apprentice mate training programs approved by the commandant" I keep hearing about on the coast guard site. Do these exist? If so, where? I would love to find one of these because the hawsepipe is my path. The person that answered the phone at the NMC was clueless. Couldn't help me. What companies, if any, offer these? Thanks for your input, guys.

**Jemplayer** · May 10th, 2012, 02:24 PM

http://www.workboatacademy.com/

I think HOS might have something like what your are talking about. I think they have partnered with Houston out of New Orleans for this.

**cappy208** · May 10th, 2012, 04:54 PM

Are you referring to the "Master/Mate of Towing Vessel" license?

That can be done on your own, while you work on towing vessels as a Deckhand to garner required time on a towing vessel.

You can attend a years long school, buit that will cost you bug bucks (and time)

What specific part of the industry are you contemplating?

**Captain.BillyH** · May 10th, 2012, 05:27 PM

HOS does have a program for OS if you meet the criteria for the program.

**Capt Ryan** · May 10th, 2012, 05:49 PM

HOS might be the answer, then. My goal, for now, would be to achieve the third mate level that you get fresh out of a maritime academy....obviously without going to a maraitime academy. Cappy- I'm not sure exactly what I am referring to. I have read on the coast guard site that there are three year apprentice mates program that can be utilized in the place of formal schooling. That's all I know. Not even the people at NMC know about it. Hence the questions here. Thanks guys, I will look into HOS.

**rshrew** · May 10th, 2012, 05:51 PM

Originally Posted by Capt Ryan

HOS might be the answer, then. My goal, for now, would be to achieve the third mate level that you get fresh out of a maritime academy....obviously without going to a maraitime academy. Cappy- I'm not sure exactly what I am referring to. I have read on the coast guard site that there are three year apprentice mates program that can be utilized in the place of formal schooling. That's all I know. Not even the people at NMC know about it. Hence the questions here. Thanks guys, I will look into HOS.

You might be thinking about the work boat academy at Pacific Maritime Institute. Google them up for info.

**Capt Ryan** · May 10th, 2012, 07:16 PM

Originally Posted by rshrew

You might be thinking about the work boat academy at Pacific Maritime Institute. Google them up for info.

I am aware of the workboat academy. If this is what the coast guard web site is referring to then I have my answer. I don't, however, think that this is what they were talking about. I could be wrong, though. I'm just looking for info on apprentice mates training programs- specifically- three year programs.

**rigdvr** · May 10th, 2012, 08:28 PM

I doubt such a program exists as you are picturing in your mind. You can't even expect to meet the seatime requirements for 3rd unlimited in 3 years much less fit in all the required coursework.

Sounds like you are motivated enough to make it happen, but you should probably resolve yourself to the simple fact that the hawsepipe is not a shortcut. Why would anyone go to the academies if they could earn a 3rd's in 3 years?

An honest opinion here, if you want to be successful in the GoM, focus on getting your AB and RFPNW. This will put you in a position to get on a bigger vessel at a bigger company than entering with a 100 ton, and AB's are making as much as most 100 ton masters anyway. This will also open doors for advancement to your 1600mate then master. Add oceans and DP unlimited and the money starts getting real nice. From there just a little seatime would get you to your 3rd if you still want to get it. BEWARE of the "100 ton trap". It's harder to move up from being a master on 100 ton vessels than it is from deck on a big boat. That's the one thing I wish someone would have explained to me when I started out.

Good luck

**rigdvr** · May 10th, 2012, 08:44 PM

I see it does say a Commandant approved 3 year program on the 3rd unlimited checklist...but before you get your hopes up, I've never heard of one in the GoM, and highly doubt there are any.

HOS is taking in guys willing to work through a structured program to get them to mates though

**Capt Ryan** · May 10th, 2012, 08:46 PM

I am not looking for a shortcut. I know this is a long road. My question was about a sentance I kept seeing on the coast guard website. I don't think it exists either, I wanted to pick the minds of professionals already in the industry. With that said- I genuinely appreciate your words, Rigdvr. That's what I need. People doing what I want to do that are willing to light up the path a little bit. Thanks.

**rigdvr** · May 10th, 2012, 09:02 PM

Ryan,
Here is the best advice I was given and should have listened to...take every class you can and get every certification you can as soon as you can.

Time will pass faster than you can imagine on the typical 28/14 schedule and without a focused effort you will wake up 5 years from now realizing you made little or no progress on your goals. Short term sacrifice will yield long term success in this industry.

Try to get with a company that encourages advancement. IMHO ECO would be tops in that department. They are the only GoM company with their own training facility. Take as many classes as you want, go as far as you want. It is also one of the more difficult places to get on with. HOS seems to encourage advancement as well with their new "training mate" program. Not sure how hard/easy it is to schedule classes(do you have to bug the crap out of the office?). They know they are going to be in an officer crunch in the near future.

Everybody out here is a self proclaimed licensing expert. DO YOUR RESEARCH. Don't let the negative Nellies you ARE going to work with hold you back.

Your goal is attainable, just be ready for the USCG version of the special Olympics decathlon to get there!

**Capt. Phoenix** · May 11th, 2012, 12:15 AM

Originally Posted by rigdvr

I see it does say a Commandant approved 3 year program on the 3rd unlimited checklist...but before you get your hopes up, I've never heard of one in the GoM, and highly doubt there are any.

I expect it is a "in times of war" thing. The commandant can "approve" additional programs to pass thirds if there is ever a WWII style shipping surge. I am fairly certain that none currently exist.

**seadog6608** · May 11th, 2012, 04:19 AM

Google up a place called Tongue Point, Oregon. They have a program which IIRC, is run by jobcorps.

**lemurian** · May 11th, 2012, 04:28 AM

Originally Posted by rigdvr

DO YOUR RESEARCH.

Exactly. Often there's more than one path to your license goal.

**cappy208** · May 11th, 2012, 06:32 AM

Originally Posted by rigdvr

BEWARE of the "100 ton trap". It's harder to move up from being a master on 100 ton vessels than it is from deck on a big boat. That's the one thing I wish someone would have explained to me when I started out.

This is often stated, but rarely understood (or realized) A 100 ton and OS Seamans MMC qualify an individual to serve as..... an OS.

There are three distinct career paths. 100 ton and under; under 1600 ton; and unlimited (over 1600 ton)

Within the lower tow is a license path for towing vessels called "apprentice steersman." This is the only "apprentice" program I am aware of. (Although I am frequently wrong and usually will be told forthwith!)

CaptRyan: I have come from where you are from. It will be a humbling experience to have to go back on deck. I made a conscious decision when i was in my 20's that I could not go away for months at a time from my family to get the necessary time on ships to get a thirds or better. I do not know of any unlimited tonnage vessels (over 1600 tons ocean routes) that don't work at least 45 days or two, three or four months schedules. I just couldn't do that schedule. So I stuck on towing vessels and found my niche. Before you go further, figure out exactly what type of vessels you want to work on. It makes a huge difference upon which license is required. If it is on less than 1600 ton type, then don't bash your head against the wall going for the unlimited thirds. But if you have your eyes set on the unlimited license route, then you have to make a decision based upon how much, how long, and how determined you must become to do it. The cost of classes you must take for the unlimited will total about $30,000. total. That's just an estimation. I am not certain, but the mentioned schools are for 1600 ton max. They still take two or three years to accomplish. You can do it on your own, and be earning while you learn. Some companies do have in house training, it depends upon which one will hire you, and what they offer. Some companies will reimburse you for training. You have to ask.

You mention the Unlimited thirds. This requires either going to a 4 year academy, or several years seatime, of which half must be on vessels OVER 1600 tons.

On the other hand; A 500/1600 requires 3 to 5 years seatime (although your existing seatime will help cut that down) but only half is required to be on vessels over 100 tons.

You need to pin down what you are looking for, first so You know what you are looking for, and second to get more pointed answers to your questions.

**Capt. Phoenix** · May 11th, 2012, 07:40 AM

The classes are the same for 1600 ton mate and 3m, and are not that expensive now that they removed the requirements for most of them.

**cappy208** · May 11th, 2012, 08:11 AM

Originally Posted by Capt. Phoenix

The classes are the same for 1600 ton mate and 3m, and are not that expensive now that they removed the requirements for most of them.

They are not that expensive, but the seatime still takes minimums of two years for 500 ton, and 3 years for 1600. (All of which takes almost double that time, assuming an even time work schedule) With either one or two years on vessels OVER 100 tons. If you do it on your own, it costs significantly more $$, but on your own time, as the classes fit your schedule.

That seems to be the trade off. If you need the money to live, it allows you to earn while you work, versus attending a school and spending money, but not earning a living.

**mtskier** · May 11th, 2012, 08:11 AM

The PMI Workboat Mate Program was a great path for me. Time on lots of different types of tugs, fast track to my 1600 ton Mate's ticket, and a network of fellow grad's. This forum is also a great network! I've moved to bigger vessels and hope to upgrade to an unlimited license at some point in the future. DPO unlimited and my 1600 Master's are this years goals. If you take a look at the 500/1600 master check list you will see the advantage of the organized program of instruction in the reduced sea time needed to advance.
Best regards!

**jdcavo** · May 11th, 2012, 10:26 AM

Originally Posted by Capt Ryan

Hello. I am in the process of mapping out my career path.
I currently run small diving and fishing boats in Southern California with a 50 ton master near coastal and a few other endorsements as a second captain/ deckhand/ galley and whatever else I can do to get out on the water and build time.I will have the accrued sea time for a 100 ton after this season. I am about to step up to the big leagues and go to the GOM ( that's my goal, anyways). My next cert is STCW- I will have that by July. My question is about these "three year apprentice mate training programs approved by the commandant" I keep hearing about on the coast guard site. Do these exist? If so, where? I would love to find one of these because the hawsepipe is my path. The person that answered the phone at the NMC was clueless. Couldn't help me. What companies, if any, offer these? Thanks for your input, guys.

I assume you are referring to the third mate requirement/alternative in 46 CFR 11.407(a)(3) (this is an alternative to either an academy, or 3 years sea time via the hawsepipe). I'm not aware of that language beingg used anywjhere but for 3rd Mate and 3rd Assistant Engineer.

Although the regs allow it as an option, currently none exist.