Tankerman Assist to PIC?

**t.mcg** · December 24th, 2011, 10:13 PM

I have been on the site looking for awhile and have learned lots of info that Maritime didnt supply when i graduated. As a recent graduate of Maritime with a 3m license and a tankerman assist, I was wondering how I would be able to get a PIC. Im currently working as a deckhand on a tug in NY harbor tha pushes a oil barge around. If I was to help with the loads and discharges would the tankerman be able to sign off on my paperwork for a PIC. Ive been told that the more paperwork and credentials that you have, the better chance you have of landing a job. Im just tyring to make myself more available in the job market. Im new in the industry and have found it very hard to get answers from the NMC. Usually gcaptain can give the right info the first time it seems. Thank you in advance and Happy holidays.

**rjbpilot** · December 24th, 2011, 10:50 PM

Why are you working as deckhand if you are a recent graduate? I would think you would be able to easily find a job with the big tanker companies. Conoco Phillips and Chevron always have ads looking especially for Grads with tanker experience. Note there are differences for barge and tankship.

http://www.msc.navy.mil/civmar/uscg/tanker.doc

**brjones** · December 24th, 2011, 11:09 PM

Did you take the DL class while in school? I graduated from an academy with a tankerman assist, but the NMC would not except it towards the PIC or Tankerman engineer. I ended up having to take the DL class to get my tankerman engineer. If I want the PIC I will need to document 5 loads, and 5 discharges.

**t.mcg** · December 25th, 2011, 10:46 PM

I do have the dl dangerous liquids cert. Dont have my papers with me but I'm certain. From what I read on that link that was posted I would need to sail using my license on a tanker. I'm working as a deckhand cause I wanted to try out the towing industry and get a feel for it. Figured it would be better to start down on deck and get some idea of what's it like. After doing a few hitches I think I'm gonna commercial ship and use my license. Thanks again for the help guys.

**jdcavo** · December 26th, 2011, 07:26 AM

If you graduated more than four years ago. your "cargo course" is no longer valid, you need to meet the same requirements as an original applicant:
Complete a new course;
90 days on a tank vessel (ship for PIC, barge or ATB for barge-PIC)
10 transfers (on a ship for PIC, barge or ATB for barge PIC)

If you graduated less than four years ago, all of the above except the course.

**PR-9** · December 27th, 2011, 07:06 AM

Originally Posted by rjbpilot

Why are you working as deckhand if you are a recent graduate? I would think you would be able to easily find a job with the big tanker companies. Conoco Phillips and Chevron always have ads looking especially for Grads with tanker experience. Note there are differences for barge and tankship.

http://www.msc.navy.mil/civmar/uscg/tanker.doc

Everyone starts as a deckhand on Tugs!

**rjbpilot** · December 27th, 2011, 08:56 AM

The point was: if he'd invested four years of his life training,earning a degree and receiving an unlimited license, why not go directly to a position which commands that license-like aboard an unlimited tonnage tanker.
I realize how valuable and necessary it is aboard tugs for all hands to be exposed to deck work. I was a deckhand, myself. But why not just go directly to the ship if you can? Forego the tug unless that is his passion now........

**t.mcg** · December 28th, 2011, 08:39 PM

I just graduated in July so all my paperwork is current. Like it was stated before all or most people start out working as a deck hand on a tug. I'm working towards getting my towing endorsement (TOAR). This will help me get to the wheel and when I do I'll have an understanding off what the deckhand is going thru. I wanna ship deep sea but the job market is not that great for a recent grad with no experience. I have applications out and I'm waiting for a phone call to ship out. Just wanna say again really appreciate the help that you guys have given me.

**cappy208** · December 29th, 2011, 06:33 AM

You have a dilemma to choose from. Stay a deckhand and wait until you get the TOAR, when and if you prove yourself to be able to stand your own watch and get a double yearly salary raise.

Or get your PIC barge and get a 1.5 salary increase as cargo 2nd mate on an ATB.

Or just bide your time until (maybe) you get a call to get a ship job.

The dilemma is how long do you want to wait? The other dilemma is often a recent grad gets typecast as 'just a PIC'. And the office is reluctant to promote you to the wheelhouse. Sometimes you have to move around to move up. Don't wait too long, or you get stereotyped and stuck.

**cappy208** · December 29th, 2011, 06:36 AM

Originally Posted by rjbpilot

But why not just go directly to the ship if you can? Forego the tug unless that is his passion now........

It would appear he is looking, and has just decided to be employed and trying to get whatever endorsements and qualofications, instead of being unemployed waiting for the dream berth.

**brjones** · December 29th, 2011, 08:12 AM

Most of the mates I went to school with, went on tankers during their commercial in order to get the PIC. Once you get that you can call OSG I know they seem to be looking for mates a lot.

**PR-9** · December 29th, 2011, 08:54 AM

Originally Posted by t.mcg

I just graduated in July so all my paperwork is current. Like it was stated before all or most people start out working as a deck hand on a tug. I'm working towards getting my towing endorsement (TOAR). This will help me get to the wheel and when I do I'll have an understanding off what the deckhand is going thru. I wanna ship deep sea but the job market is not that great for a recent grad with no experience. I have applications out and I'm waiting for a phone call to ship out. Just wanna say again really appreciate the help that you guys have given me.

MadVac posted this in a different thread. Maybe it will help you find a company.

http://users.hal-pc.org/~nugent/company.html

Good luck!!

**t.mcg** · December 29th, 2011, 10:14 PM

Originally Posted by cappy208

It would appear he is looking, and has just decided to be employed and trying to get whatever endorsements and qualofications, instead of being unemployed waiting for the dream berth.

Well said, I'm currently looking but the job market is poor so a paycheck is better than no paycheck. I got student loans to pay for. I guess I need to sit down and write out the pros and cons of staying where I am and ask around to see if the company will allow me into the wheelhouse after I get my towing endorsement. Really helps when you have people in the industry giving ideas and teaching from there mistakes.

**TyrtieElayne** · December 29th, 2011, 11:14 PM

From what I read on that link that was posted

**njtug** · December 30th, 2011, 11:04 PM

Why does the dangerous liquids class expire in 4 years?

**cappy208** · December 31st, 2011, 12:51 AM

Originally Posted by njtug

Why does the dangerous liquids class expire in 4 years?

You have to:
1. Take the course.
and
2. have the required loads, discharges, starts, stops, connections, disconnections, and days aboard a Tank Vessel (barge or ship)

You have a set amount of time to get this done. If you wait too long, the course expires. If you don't get the trips done in time they figure you don't have the amount of training needed.

Once you do get all the trips and submit the paperwork to the USCG (within the time frame) you are all set. Then the course expiration is irrelevant.

**injunear** · December 31st, 2011, 05:57 AM

Originally Posted by cappy208

Once you do get all the trips and submit the paperwork to the USCG (within the time frame) you are all set. Then the course expiration is irrelevant.

Looking 5 years down the road after getting the PIC, you have to show proof of a load and discharge to renew without taking the course again.

**jdcavo** · January 1st, 2012, 08:50 AM

Originally Posted by njtug

Why does the dangerous liquids class expire in 4 years?

See 46 CFR 13.209:

Each applicant for an original “Tankerman-PIC” endorsement shall present a certificate of completion from a course in DL or LG appropriate for tankships and for the endorsement applied for, and approved by the Commandant. The date of the certificate may not be more than 5 years earlier than the date of application. [emphasis added]

The course is given in the junior year, thus it is valid for four years after graduation.

**crudeman89** · January 1st, 2012, 12:35 PM

Mr. Cavo

Is there any way of appealing to get a tankship pic if working on a tankbarge? I work on an atb that has Inert Gas, tank Washing machines, and a totally automated cargo system. I believe it is ridiculous that you can't when the only thing that is different is the propulsion unit. It shouldn't matter as the pic is cargo related. My unit is also in upwards off 300k barrels so as much as the coast guard wants to say its a barge it really should be considered a ship. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

**jdcavo** · January 3rd, 2012, 04:40 AM

Originally Posted by crudeman89

Mr. Cavo

Is there any way of appealing to get a tankship pic if working on a tankbarge? I work on an atb that has Inert Gas, tank Washing machines, and a totally automated cargo system. I believe it is ridiculous that you can't when the only thing that is different is the propulsion unit. It shouldn't matter as the pic is cargo related. My unit is also in upwards off 300k barrels so as much as the coast guard wants to say its a barge it really should be considered a ship. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

If you applied for (tank ship) PIC and were denied, you can appeal that decision. You musrt first request a reconsideration of the NMC's decision within 30 days. If still denied, you can appeal to CG HQ, via the NMC.

I would not give such an appeal much chance for sucess. The regulation is clear, and doesn't provide for consideration of alternatives or equivalents. In fact, the history of the current regulations makes it clear there was an intent to separate barges and ships. At first the Coast Guard proposed a single endorsement for all tank vessels, but chnaged to the current regulations after significant comment, notably from tank barge operators. Given the specificity and lack of alternatives in the current regulation, the history of the regulation and the clear regulatory intent, I would not give an appeal a very high chance for success.