1 1/2 sea days?

[brjones]

When I was coming up I remember folks telling me to get letters from the old man about 12 hour days so I could get time and a half for sea days. We work 8 hour days with 4 hours overtime everyday. Even the company had a letter they would print up stating the 12 hour day to maintain the plant. Well our 3rd just tried this and the NMC denied him the time. I never needed to do this, but know plenty who have. Was this just something that was done at individual REC's and now the NMC is saying no? Or can a person still get this?

[KPEngineer]

You need 12 hours of watch a day. 8 hours of watch and 4 hours of other work will not get you day and a half credit.

Sent from my iPhone using gCaptain

[brjones]

You need 12 hours of watch a day. 8 hours of watch and 4 hours of other work will not get you day and a half credit.

Sent from my iPhone using gCaptain

That is how I always understood it. Must be individual REC that were giving the credit.

[Capt. Phoenix]

That is how I always understood it. Must be individual REC that were giving the credit.

The current RECs seemed to have their areas of expertise (whatever type of license/boats they handled the most) so if you applied for something they weren't familiar with they would kind of wing it.

To get 1.5 sea days you need to be on a vessel approved for 12 hour watches and stand 12 hours of watch, not 8 of watch plus daily overtime. Since you have a 3rd onboard chances are good that you are not on a type of vessel approved for 12 hour watches so even if you worked 12 hours of watch a day they would probably deny you. Also, QMEDs are never allowed to work 12 hour watches so cannot get the 1.5 days. (Not that he is a QMED, just pointing that out.)

[Ianmmd]

I think the day and a half is on it's way out January 1st and a 12 hour day will only be counted as a day no matter what, just what I herd.

[deven]

The current RECs seemed to have their areas of expertise (whatever type of license/boats they handled the most) so if you applied for something they weren't familiar with they would kind of wing it.

To get 1.5 sea days you need to be on a vessel approved for 12 hour watches and stand 12 hours of watch, not 8 of watch plus daily overtime. Since you have a 3rd onboard chances are good that you are not on a type of vessel approved for 12 hour watches so even if you worked 12 hours of watch a day they would probably deny you. Also, QMEDs are never allowed to work 12 hour watches so cannot get the 1.5 days. (Not that he is a QMED, just pointing that out.)

QMEDs can in fact work 12 hour watches, it depends on your vessel COI. Certain levels of automation and other factors supercede the regulations that oilers must always work a 3 watch rotation.

If you work 8 on with 4 hours of overtime, then no, there is no way the NMC will approve 12 hour days for that unless your company says that you work 12 hour watches AND your COI states that a minimum of 2 Oilers are needed on board the vessel. Even in this case, your company and you would be lying to the NMC and if found out could get you both in some trouble.

[Capt. Phoenix]

QMEDs can in fact work 12 hour watches, it depends on your vessel COI. Certain levels of automation and other factors supercede the regulations that oilers must always work a 3 watch rotation.

The CFRs specifically say that a oilers cannot work more than an 8 hour watch, subject to exceptions. People have been refused by the NMC even when they were actually working 12 hour watches because the vessel was not approved for those exemptions.

[deven]

Right, its kind of messed up because the CFRs say what you say, yet other regulations and the manning requirements contradict it in many cases.

§ 15.501(b) The manning requirements for a particular vessel are determined by the OCMI after consideration of the applicable laws, the regulations in this part, and all other factors involved, such as: Emergency situations, size and type of vessel, installed equipment, proposed routes of operation including frequency of port calls, cargo carried, type of service in which employed, degree of automation, use of labor saving devices, and the organizational structure of the vessel.

Ultimately 95% of the time a QMED cannot stand 12 hour watches, if you do, but are unsure as to whether its legal then look at the manning requirements on the COI, as the OCMIs have a much better understanding of the laws, and how they apply than do most of the evaluators at the NMC.

[jdcavo]

QMEDs can in fact work 12 hour watches...

QMEDS are not permitted to work 12 hours of watch per day per 46 U.S. Code Section 8104(g):

"On a towing vessel, an offshore supply vessel, or a barge to which this section applies, that is engaged on a voyage of less than 600 miles, the licensed individuals and crewmembers (except the coal passers, firemen, oilers, and water tenders) may be divided, when at sea, into at least 2 watches." [emphasis added]

This section provides an exception to the rule in paragraph (d) of this section which provides "licensed individuals, sailors, coal passers, firemen, oilers, and water tenders shall be divided, when at sea, into at least 3 watches." As the provision on two watches specifically excludes QMEDs, they must follow the general rule of 3 watches.

The above is implemented by 46 CFR 15.705(c).

[Capt. Phoenix]

And if the OCMI dictates that there are only two oilers required then doesn't that imply that the oilers on that vessel are allowed to work 12 hour watches?

[Steamer]

And if the OCMI dictates that there are only two oilers required then doesn't that imply that the oilers on that vessel are allowed to work 12 hour watches?

Don't assume that the engine room is manned 24 hours a day.

[orangejulius]

I went through this battle a couple months ago with the coast guard. I finally did get them to recognize some of my time as day and half but it took close to 2 months to go through all the hoops. First I had to ask for a appeal and be denied that it was basically asking my evaluator to look over my sea-time again. The next step I had to specifically ask for a FORMAL APPEAL of my sea time. I had to write a paper stating the problem why they where wrong and how my vessels was manned. I also had to provide COIs that stated the vessel is approved by the coast guard to operate on a two man system. This formal appeal was sent to a review board in washington that is not part of the NMC and they finally approved me. It was a giant headache. I have also been told basically only the officer in charge of the watch will be able to get the time and a half since we are required to hold twelve hours of watch per day since my vessel operates 24/7.

[hopperdredgbill]

Mr. Cavo,
My QMED's are having this same problem now that everything goes to the NMC. My COI calls for 3 oilers, with an exemption allowing only 2 while engaged in dredging (lakes, ,bays and sounds, or rivers) or when engaged in a coastwise voyage of less than 400 NM. 95% of our time is spent under the conditions of the exemption, with an occasional voyage to a new job site. What do I need to specify to get the QMED's 1 1/2 per day?
Traditionally the US hopper dredge fleet (small though it is) was a great way to rapidly advance your license. Everyone got 1 1/2 per day, and were dischargeds with whatever license they held.

[captaint76]

It has always been my understanding that the 1.5 days for a 12 hour day was only extended to those who work on a 6 hrs on / 6 hrs off watch rotation and that working a straight 12 hours is not. I never understood why this was but it is what I have heard several times from the REC's and experienced mariners. I worked 12 hr watches for several yours and was never able to claim 1.5 days for 1.

[Capt. Phoenix]

It has always been my understanding that the 1.5 days for a 12 hour day was only extended to those who work on a 6 hrs on / 6 hrs off watch rotation and that working a straight 12 hours is not. I never understood why this was but it is what I have heard several times from the REC's and experienced mariners. I worked 12 hr watches for several yours and was never able to claim 1.5 days for 1.

The 1.5 day credit only supplies when you work with two operators and the vessel runs 24 hours a day. If the two watches work 12 on and 12 off it is the same as 6 on 6 off.

Working 12 hours a day then going home at night does not qualify for 1.5 day credit.

[captaint76]

The 1.5 day credit only supplies when you work with two operators and the vessel runs 24 hours a day. If the two watches work 12 on and 12 off it is the same as 6 on 6 off.

Working 12 hours a day then going home at night does not qualify for 1.5 day credit.

That was my original understanding as well. I worked that schedule for more than three years in the GOM (12 on / 12 off staying onboard) but the NMC and REC's would never accept it even though the letters of sea time all explained our work schedule. I need to appeal it. I have a lot of missing sea time!

[Diesel]

That was my original understanding as well. I worked that schedule for more than three years in the GOM (12 on / 12 off staying onboard) but the NMC and REC's would never accept it even though the letters of sea time all explained our work schedule. I need to appeal it. I have a lot of missing sea time!

How would NMC have any idea if you were 6 on 6 off or 12 on 12 off, I have never seen a sea-time letter referencing this

[Capt. Phoenix]

I have had multiple sea time letters from different companies say "working 6x6 watches".

[Capt. Phoenix]

That was my original understanding as well. I worked that schedule for more than three years in the GOM (12 on / 12 off staying onboard) but the NMC and REC's would never accept it even though the letters of sea time all explained our work schedule. I need to appeal it. I have a lot of missing sea time!

If you work 12x12 make sure the letter says the vessel is operational 24 hours a day.

[DeckApe]

If you work 12x12 make sure the letter says the vessel is operational 24 hours a day.

Every vessel is in operation 24 hours a day...