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Thread: 3rd Mate Assessments

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    AB Murph is offline Old Salt
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    Default 3rd Mate Assessments

    Who can sign these off? Any 500t master with 3000 ITC?
    1600t with 3000 ITC or does the master have to have a 6000 ITC?
    I couldn't find it on the new USCG letter.

    Also I had some signed off on the old assessment package when I went thru
    ARPA school. Will I need to redo all of those again
    Or can I use the old assessment package?

    I have finished my OSV assessment package and would rather go ahead
    and test for 3rd mate unl. if my cap'n can do the assessments.

    Thanks for any help.
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    Anyone with II/2 can sign it off. I dont think a 3000 ton osv qualifies. You need to find out exactly what he has as far as STCW ratings go because the US license is not what matters. (The ITC tonnage doesn't mean anything either.)
    Last edited by Capt. Phoenix; December 11th, 2011 at 12:08 PM.
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    Default Re: 3rd Mate Assessments

    Quote Originally Posted by Capt. Schmitt View Post
    Anyone with II/2 can sign it off. I dont think a 3000 ton osv qualifies. You need to find out exactly what he has as far as STCW ratings go because the US license is not what matters. (The ITC tonnage doesn't mean anything either.)

    What do you mean ITC tonnage doesn't matter? My vessel doesn't even have a domestic tonnage, and a 3000 ton OSV will certainly get him his 540 days over 200 ton sea-time, or a 1600 ton Mate Ticket. Testing and assessments are identical for that and for Third. What do you mean US License doesn't matter? STCW tonnages parallel those of your domestic license, and the important STCW codes are now, and have been for a while, an intrinsic part of the license. In other words someone could not hold a 500 ton Master NC license without having already met all of the STCW requirements. What do you mean, "find out exactly what he has as far as STCW ratings go?" Maybe his Captain is a "her."

    Murph, any Master 500 tons NC or better, or any Mate 500 NC or better with at least one year of experience can sign your assessments. Provided they have read the CG guidance to assessor's which is included in the assessment package. If they are signing your celestial assessments they will need Oceans as well. If you do not have at least 1.5 years of time on a vessel over 1600 domestic or 3000 ITC your license will most likely have a tonnage restriction. If you don't have that you can get a 1600 Mate, later add a 6000 endorsement, garner the rest of your sea-time, and upgrade to unlimited with no further testing or assessments. Later Bro.
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    Default Re: 3rd Mate Assessments

    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel View Post
    What do you mean ITC tonnage doesn't matter? My vessel doesn't even have a domestic tonnage, and a 3000 ton OSV will certainly get him his 540 days over 200 ton sea-time, or a 1600 ton Mate Ticket. Testing and assessments are identical for that and for Third.
    The tonnage limit on the CAPTAIN'S license does not matter as far as him being able to sign off on assessments.


    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel View Post
    What do you mean US License doesn't matter? STCW tonnages parallel those of your domestic license, and the important STCW codes are now, and have been for a while, an intrinsic part of the license. In other words someone could not hold a 500 ton Master NC license without having already met all of the STCW requirements.
    It is possible to get a NC license with no attached STCW and I am unsure if "Master OSV" counts as STCW because while granting rights according to ITC tonnage it is not valid internationally. That is why I said he needs to make sure (see for HIMSELF not take anyone's word for it) that the captain has STCW II/2 on his license.


    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel View Post
    What do you mean, "find out exactly what he has as far as STCW ratings go?" Maybe his Captain is a "her."
    "He" is the correct word choice in the English language if the gender of the subject is unknown. (Phrases like "he/she" are not correct English.) Along these lines, it is Chairman and Congressman, never Chairwoman or Congresswoman. Those are job titles that have no bearing on the gender of the person holding them. (Also, one cannot be the chair of a committee. A chair is a piece of furniture. One can chair a committee though...)


    Quote Originally Posted by Diesel View Post
    Murph, any Master 500 tons NC or better, or any Mate 500 NC or better with at least one year of experience can sign your assessments.
    Again, that is too simplified. They MUST have STCW II/2 on their license. Verify for yourself or you are gambling with the NMC.
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    AB Murph is offline Old Salt
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    Default Re: 3rd Mate Assessments

    Thanks for the answers guys Captain Schmitt and Diesel. I posted that from my phone and didn't have a keyboard to type fast. I did call the USCG to ask them but couldn't remember what they said. ( This was two months ago) After reading ya'lls two posts it does seem that she said they needed something on their STCW, it didn't matter what their lic. was. That was what was throwing me off because she said something like yea they can be 500t if they have Whatever.

    I would have sent the one guy on here a IM if I could remember his screen name. I think it is Dcalvo or something like that. He sounds like he is in the Know at the USCG.

    Do either of you know the answer to the second part of the question?

    I started on the OLD assessment book and had some things signed off in it from ARPA school. Do I need to get a NEW assessment book since the rule change or can I continue using the old one? I noticed that the last letters to the assessment number is different. That is the only difference I could see.
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    How old is your "old" assessment book?
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    Default Re: 3rd Mate Assessments

    Quote Originally Posted by AB Murph View Post
    I started on the OLD assessment book and had some things signed off in it from ARPA school. Do I need to get a NEW assessment book since the rule change or can I continue using the old one? I noticed that the last letters to the assessment number is different. That is the only difference I could see.
    I don't know what they are going to say about the last letter being different. Are they all different? I think they may have pulled something, or added something in one of the sections. I wish I could be more help on that one but I'm not able to fact check it at the moment.
    What I can tell you is that I emailed the NMC asking the time limit on the assessments because it took me a while to get them done and I could not find anything stating time limits. I was told straight out in the reply that the assessments do not expire. I am holding on to that email because I may get a different interpretation during evaluation.
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    Default Re: 3rd Mate Assessments

    Quote Originally Posted by Capt. Schmitt View Post
    How old is your "old" assessment book?
    I took ARPA in May.

    Example: assessment OICNW-3-1C in the old book is now OICNW-3-2C.

    Both are the same assessment though. Today is Monday so I will call them again. I'm just shy of them because when I 1st got into this offshore stuff I got conflicting advise from them.
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    Default Re: 3rd Mate Assessments

    Here is what she told me. They assessor needs an II/2 or II/3 to to.
    She said a 500t or 1600t MASTER will have an II/2.
    II/3 is where you are authorized to stand a nav watch or something like that.
    Mainly for 3rd mates and 200t and less captains.

    I could use the old package as well.
    Some of the stuff from my OSV mate could cross over if I ask for an evaluation.
    Forget that I'll just redo it to be on the safe side.

    Thanks for your input Diesel and Captain Schmitt. You both were as she said.
    Thanks again.

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    Default Re: 3rd Mate Assessments

    I believe yer looking for Mr. Cavo
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    Default Re: 3rd Mate Assessments

    Quote Originally Posted by Capt. Schmitt View Post
    The tonnage limit on the CAPTAIN'S license does not matter as far as him being able to sign off on assessments.




    It is possible to get a NC license with no attached STCW and I am unsure if "Master OSV" counts as STCW because while granting rights according to ITC tonnage it is not valid internationally. That is why I said he needs to make sure (see for HIMSELF not take anyone's word for it) that the captain has STCW II/2 on his license.




    "He" is the correct word choice in the English language if the gender of the subject is unknown. (Phrases like "he/she" are not correct English.) Along these lines, it is Chairman and Congressman, never Chairwoman or Congresswoman. Those are job titles that have no bearing on the gender of the person holding them. (Also, one cannot be the chair of a committee. A chair is a piece of furniture. One can chair a committee though...)




    Again, that is too simplified. They MUST have STCW II/2 on their license. Verify for yourself or you are gambling with the NMC.


    Capt Schmidt I was mostly busting your chops and you handled it well, so Kudos to you, but I was correcting some common misconceptions. I am not oversimplifying it, you are overcomplicating it.

    Here is how: Notice I specifically did not mention Mate or Master OSV as able to sign the assessments. Maybe I should have been more clear in stating that all non-trade restricted Mate/Masters over 500 tons can assess, but I felt that was implied. Capt. Schmidt, What you may not know is that Mate and Master OSV both have STCW's attached to them that are endorsed II/1 and II/2 respectively. There is a little parenthetical statement next to them restricting them to motor propelled offshore supply vessels, but they are nevertheless operational and management level licenses which can even be endorsed for oceans service. Wow, now it's getting complicated. That is why I did not recommend that AB's go around asking officer's for their credentials because most likely they will not understand what they are looking at, just like I did not. I don't think I would want an officer who did not know if he was qualified, signing my assessments anyway. One other tidbit of information, while the IMO does not recognize OSV licenses, many individual flag states have. *You will also find VERY FEW Master OSV license holders out there ( I know of one) because it is still possible to go from Mate OSV to Master 1600 with just sea-time and testing.

    So again, any Master 500 ton NC non-trade restricted or greater (STCW II/2), or any Mate 500 NC non-trade restricted or greater (STCW II/1) with one year of experience can sign the OICNW assessments. If you want the celestial 1-1A thru 1-1F assessments signed they need to have Oceans as well. Basically, you can assess up to the level of licensing you currently hold. The year of experience required for Mates to assess is because the CG doesn't want green Mates assessing people. Someone with a Master license has by definition at least two years of licensed experience.
    Last edited by Diesel; December 12th, 2011 at 06:49 PM.
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    Capt. Phoenix's Avatar
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    Diesel, I did not know that about OSV licenses, thanks.

    My point is that it is actually possible to have a 500/1600 ton NC license without any corresponding STCW license (although very rare) and I dont remember the poster specifying what specific industry he worked in, STCW being required to work in some and not others.

    Oh, and to nitpick, no one on here seems able to read my name. Every time someone writes my name out they spell it wrong...
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