Looking for Captain's Insurance Advice

[waterblue]

Newly licensed at the 100 and 150 ton master and mate levels respectively and about to get my first captain's job. I would like to get insurance. Any recommendations on good resources for this? Reputable and reliable. Thanks

[c.captain]

Newly licensed at the 100 and 150 ton master and mate levels respectively and about to get my first captain's job. I would like to get insurance. Any recommendations on good resources for this? Reputable and reliable. Thanks

first...don't worry about the insurance...just do your job professionally and don't take chances. It's people who get lazy that get into the trouble and the Coast Guard hates people who cut corners.

second...do they really have a 150ton mate's license?

[Kennebec Captain]

From gcaptain a good article here: Marine License Insurance – Questions & Answers

I use MOPS, I think they are the biggest outfit, don't know too much about them but they seemed savvy on the phone when I purchased a couple years back.

K.C.

[dougpine]

first...don't worry about the insurance...just do your job professionally and don't take chances. It's people who get lazy that get into the trouble and the Coast Guard hates people who cut corners.

c.captain, yours has got to be the single worst piece of advice ever posted on gCaptain forum while being ignorant and insulting all at the same time. At least you're consistent.

I don't know many who would describe me as unprofessional or lazy or the type who cuts corners yet license insurance saved my ass once to the tune of $10k.

MOPS is my insurance company. it is cheap piece of mind.

If you're sailing as mate you might get away with not having it for a while but everyone sailing as master should carry it.

[cappy208]

MOPS. Been there, done that.

[cappy208]

If you're sailing as mate you might get away with not having it for a while but everyone sailing as master should carry it.

Or you should look for work with a company that either provides it, or has a group plan to join.

[c.captain]

c.captain, yours has got to be the single worst piece of advice ever posted on gCaptain forum while being ignorant and insulting all at the same time. At least you're consistent.

I just gave him my advice...why have the wild hair?

sheesh...everybody's a critic!

[tengineer]

I just gave him my advice...why have the wild hair?

sheesh...everybody's a critic!

The single worst piece of advice ever? Damn, that's saying a lot!
Congratulations C. Captain.
tengineer

[dougpine]

He's a winner.

[PR-9]

Let's play nice guys!!!

[Ea$y Money]

Whenever you buy insurance of any kind you are betting against the house. Depending on your odds of getting sick, into a car wreck, a flood etc. will determine your supposed "need" for insurance. If you pay in and never need help then you have wasted your money. Also, you get what they give you which probably ain't the best in the world because they want to keep cost down to make a profit. That's why they are in business to make money at your expense. How much is you license worth? That's a question you have to answer to make a value judgement. You can find an attorney that you respect and sleek to them about handling claims against yourself and or your license then if you like what they have to say put them on retainer so you have counsel if you ever get in a jamb.

Having insurance doesn't do anything magical to save your license it only saves you the hassles of finding an attorney.

[cappy208]

Having insurance doesn't do anything magical to save your license it only saves you the hassles of finding an attorney.

THAT is an excellent piece of knowledge!! Thanks EM

[dougpine]

When you buy insurance, you are transferring the risk of a large loss (your income, your license, your assets) to another party in exchange for a predictable small loss which is the cost of the premium. This creates a predictable risk which is much more palatable than an unpredictable one. If I must deal with losses, I'm much happier having a good idea what that loss will be. So in my mind, it isn't a bet as much as it is mitigation of loss. Like when I lost my mind on c.captain there. That was unpredictable. If he had simply purchased my "anti-rant insurance" policy he would not have gotten blasted they way he did.

[DeckApe]

Never mind. I mid-read and mis-posted.

[Kennebec Captain]

When you buy insurance, you are transferring the risk of a large loss (your income, your license, your assets) to another party in exchange for a predictable small loss which is the cost of the premium. This creates a predictable risk which is much more palatable than an unpredictable one. If I must deal with losses, I'm much happier having a good idea what that loss will be. So in my mind, it isn't a bet as much as it is mitigation of loss.

Yes, well put, a newly licensed mariner like waterblue is not going to be able to easily estimate the downside. You can buy insurance a year at a time. At the end of the year, with more experience and a better handle on the risk he/she can cancel or renew.

If you think about it mariners mitigate risk all the time. Putting out extra lines, holding drills etc all have costs and reduce risk. It just that when you buy insurance it has a specific dollar cost and benefit.

"The time for taking all measures for a ship's safety is while still able to do so. Nothing is more dangerous than for a seaman to be grudging in taking precautions lest they turn out to have been unnecessary. Safety at sea for a thousand years has depended on exactly the opposite philosophy." --Admiral C.W. Nimitz

K.C.

[c.captain]

Like when I lost my mind on c.captain there. That was unpredictable. If he had simply purchased my "anti-rant insurance" policy he would not have gotten blasted they way he did.

Ah, but to protect yourself from my tirades you need a comprehensive mega anti-rant policy which covers 10000ton powder magazine detonations, 200' tsunamis, 9.0 magnitude temblors, ferril cats, giant squid, and that most horrible catastrophe of all...a gallon of milk spilled inside your car during a Mississippi August with the windows rolled up! TALK ABOUT STINK!

[jdcavo]

...second...do they really have a 150ton mate's license?

See 46 CFR 11.422(a)

[Cal]

By definition, an accident is, "an undesirable or unfortunate happening that occurs unintentionally and usually results in harm, injury, damage, or loss".

If things ALWAYS go as planned, then there is no need for insurance, of any type. I certainly don't plan on getting into a car accident, yet I buy car insurance (besides the fact that it is required by the state). I don't plan on ending up in the water when I'm at work, yet I always wear a work vest when I'm out on deck.

Insurance is prior planning for an event that is unplanned. I recently overheard someone complaining about how a friend of theirs couldn't get medical insurance. He didn't have insurance but when he was diagnosed with a heart condition he then attempted to buy insurance and couldn't get it. Kind of misses the point doesn't it? You buy the insurance PRIOR to the unplanned event, not after.

In addition to helping find an attorney, if I'm not mistaken, the insurance policy would also pay for monetary assessments.

[Kennebec Captain]

By definition, an accident is, "an undesirable or unfortunate happening that occurs unintentionally and usually results in harm, injury, damage, or loss".

If things ALWAYS go as planned, then there is no need for insurance, of any type. I certainly don't plan on getting into a car accident, yet I buy car insurance (besides the fact that it is required by the state). I don't plan on ending up in the water when I'm at work, yet I always wear a work vest when I'm out on deck.

Insurance is prior planning for an event that is unplanned. I recently overheard someone complaining about how a friend of theirs couldn't get medical insurance. He didn't have insurance but when he was diagnosed with a heart condition he then attempted to buy insurance and couldn't get it. Kind of misses the point doesn't it? You buy the insurance PRIOR to the unplanned event, not after.

A lot of mariners understand these concepts on a intuitive level but I think it helps, particularly at the senior level officers, to have a more concrete understanding.

I had a captain tell me that as master, you could not make the company any money, you could only prevent loses.

This is an interesting way to look at it I think. If I am moving cargo from point A to point B there is a very limited upside, that is, I arrive without incident and everyone gets paid. On the downside however there is risk of injury or death, large oil spills, jail time etc. It is the captain's (and crew's) job to reduce the risk on the downside at the lowest cost to the upside.

The devil of course, is in the details.

K.C.

[waterblue]

Yeah, I do, 46CFR11.422a

second...do they really have a 150ton mate's license?[/QUOTE]