Tonnage issues..... Where can I get some answers?

**Ea$y Money** · August 10th, 2011, 03:15 PM

If I have been approved to test for 3rd Mate Limited 3000 GRT. Is/Will there be an ITC tonnage on my license? Having a hard time finding out exactly what to expect.

**jdcavo** · August 10th, 2011, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by Ea$y Money

If I have been approved to test for 3rd Mate Limited 3000 GRT. Is/Will there be an ITC tonnage on my license? Having a hard time finding out exactly what to expect.

Only if the vessels you got your time on are measured under ITC. Otherwise, there's no basis to calculate a tonnage limit (there is no equivalency or conversion for GRT to ITC, the GRT is unique to each vessel based on its design.

**Ea$y Money** · August 10th, 2011, 04:26 PM

Originally Posted by jdcavo

Only if the vessels you got your time on are measured under ITC. Otherwise, there's no basis to calculate a tonnage limit (there is no equivalency or conversion for GRT to ITC, the GRT is unique to each vessel based on its design.

So, if no ITC tonnage is listed on my ticket then I can only ride on a vessel that has domestic tonnage (GRT) listed on the COI? And the ONLY way to get this changed is to ride a vessel that is more than 1600 GRT up to the 3000 GRT my ticket is endorsed for 6 months and get unlimited? Once unlimited then I will be good to go on any tonnage, ITC or GRT?

**Cal** · August 11th, 2011, 05:11 AM

Originally Posted by Ea$y Money

So, if no ITC tonnage is listed on my ticket then I can only ride on a vessel that has domestic tonnage (GRT) listed on the COI? And the ONLY way to get this changed is to ride a vessel that is more than 1600 GRT up to the 3000 GRT my ticket is endorsed for 6 months and get unlimited? Once unlimited then I will be good to go on any tonnage, ITC or GRT?

I hold a 1600 Ton Mate and Third Mate limited to 2,000 GRT. 1600 GRT and 3000 GT (ITC) is listed on my 1600 Ton Mate, no ITC tonnage is listed on my Third Mate, only the 2,000 GRT.

You're not going to get unlimited working on a vessel under the authority of your license. If it were up to your limitation, 3,000 GRT, that would increase your limitation to 5,000 GRT. You're looking at being an AB watchstander on a vessel over 10,000 GRT for a year in order to do that. A vessel greater than 6,000 GRT would work as well, but I don't know how much time would be needed without looking up the CFR and calculating it.

Once unlimited, the license would be good on any tonnage, GRT or ITC.

**jdcavo** · August 11th, 2011, 06:00 AM

Originally Posted by Ea$y Money

So, if no ITC tonnage is listed on my ticket then I can only ride on a vessel that has domestic tonnage (GRT) listed on the COI? And the ONLY way to get this changed is to ride a vessel that is more than 1600 GRT up to the 3000 GRT my ticket is endorsed for 6 months and get unlimited? Once unlimited then I will be good to go on any tonnage, ITC or GRT?

Any gross tons, without any limitation, is good for any tonnage, GRT or ITC.

**cmakin** · August 11th, 2011, 06:28 AM

Remember, GRT (Gross Registered Tonnage) and ITC (International Tonnage Convention) are basically the same thing, but "measured" and expressed differently. In the US, GRT is gross tonnage that is admeasured under the old, US rules and is the volume of the enclosed spaces of a vessel, with the application of a formula. "Enclosed Spaces" is the key word. Tonnage Doors/Hatches and other such tricks have been used to achieve the lowest GRT figure for a vessel. Until recently, many flag nations had their own rules for admeasurement. I beleive that some nations in Europe have accepted lines painted on a bulkhead to be the equivalent of Tonnage Hatches in the US.

The International Tonnage Convention developed common rules that were adopted by the IMO in 1969 (I believe). These rules were adopted for the purpose of having an international standard for the measurement of gross and net tonnage. It is now applied to vessels engaged in international trade. To differentiate between vessels that are still only subject to the old, US rules, the shorthand of GRT is used. For vessels that are subject to ITC rules, well you get it. The reason that there are two different numbers is because the methods of admeasurement are different. The same vessel will generally have a lower number for GRT than their ITC tonnage.

**Ea$y Money** · August 12th, 2011, 12:12 AM

Originally Posted by jdcavo

Any gross tons, without any limitation, is good for any tonnage, GRT or ITC.

But as long as my ticket is endorsed with 3000 GRT only, I will NOT be allowed to ride on a vessel that has ITC tonnage only on the COI? Duel tonnage vessels are fair game as long as GRT tonnage listed is less than 3000?

Sorry if I am missing something here but need to get this straight.

Per 11.402 (c), (1) 6 months over 1600 GRT and unlimited is mine for the asking. Planning for my next step and can't afford to be vague.

**Capt. Phoenix** · August 12th, 2011, 12:21 AM

Originally Posted by Ea$y Money

Sorry if I am missing something here but need to get this straight.

Per 11.402 (c), (1) 6 months over 1600 GRT and unlimited is mine for the asking. Planning for my next step and can't afford to be vague.

That six months would need to be as 3rd mate. Doubtful you could find a 2500 grt shop to ride as third. If you went as an AB for 12 months while holding the license it would also clear the restriction...

**Capt. Phoenix** · August 12th, 2011, 02:10 AM

Originally Posted by Cal

I hold a 1600 Ton Mate and Third Mate limited to 2,000 GRT. 1600 GRT and 3000 GT (ITC) is listed on my 1600 Ton Mate, no ITC tonnage is listed on my Third Mate, only the 2,000 GRT.

You're not going to get unlimited working on a vessel under the authority of your license. If it were up to your limitation, 3,000 GRT, that would increase your limitation to 5,000 GRT. You're looking at being an AB watchstander on a vessel over 10,000 GRT for a year in order to do that. A vessel greater than 6,000 GRT would work as well, but I don't know how much time would be needed without looking up the CFR and calculating it.

Once unlimited, the license would be good on any tonnage, GRT or ITC.

12 months on deck on any vessel over 1600 tons or 6 months as your highest capacity (3rd mate) over 1600 tons removes the tonnage restriction. I don't know where you got 10,000 tons but what I just told you is right out of the cfr's.

46 CFR 11.402 (c)

**Cal** · August 12th, 2011, 04:34 AM

Originally Posted by Capt. Schmitt

12 months on deck on any vessel over 1600 tons or 6 months as your highest capacity (3rd mate) over 1600 tons removes the tonnage restriction. I don't know where you got 10,000 tons but what I just told you is right out of the cfr's.

46 CFR 11.402 (c)

I stand, happily, corrected. I haven't looked back at the CFR's to dissect how to increase the tonnage on my license as it is not prudent or viable at this time. My attention when applying was on paragraphs (a) and (b), which is where I have read more into it and deduced 10,000. The company I work for has no vessels over 1,600 GRT and now is not the time to look for a new job.