New to tug boats

[mustang9189]

Hi all, this is my first post to gcaptain. I am a recent maritime school grad looking to work on tug boats in the North East, preferably NY. I graduated with my 3/M unlimited and have no experience on tug boats. I have some ideas of where I would like to work and most companies have tugs with under 100 gt. I have a few questions:

1. I know I will need to get a TOAR but would I need a Near Coastal or Inland TOAR to be operating in new york harbor and runs in long island sound or down the coast?

2. If I get on a boat with a DE and get my toar, what is my next step... and will that toar give me a master or mate of towing endorsement?

3. Is my 3/M License equal to a 100 ton master? I Looked in the CFR's and I couldnt find it anywhere.

4. How do I upgrade my license to a 200 ton or 1600 ton?

5. Is it possible to upgrade to my 2/M unlimited if I am only working on tug boats less than 100 tons.

And a totally random question:
What would I have to do to work on yachts as a mate/master? I dont know much about it but it seems like it would be a fun gig to try.

I know I have asked alot of questions that might require complicated answers...thank you to anyone who might respond. I know some classmates were also wondering the same and it would clear up alot of confusion.

Thanks!
John

[dougpine]

1. N/C
2. Your next step is to start learning, and get to the point where you can pass the assessments. You'll qualify for Mate of Towing.
3. Yes.
4. Seatime +test. Look on the USCG Homeport site for more info.
5. No.
Random answer: Do you like to clean toilets and serve cocktails to assholes? Then a yacht job is for you.

Try out our search function as well. All the answers to your questions have been posted, amid much discussion, already.

Where did you go to school? They didn't give you your fake TOAR? They don't have the answers to these questions? Get your money back.

Welcome to the forum!

[Deuce]

Doug is dead on about yachts. I have worked on private yachts for 8 years and I'll tell you this...It's like going to a dominatrix...the fantasy is much better than the reality!! Also, if you do go that route you will have to start on deck or as mate just like any other boat. An owner isn't going to turn over 1-100 million dollars worth of boat to someone with no experience, and even if you found one stupid enough to (which is likely as $ doesn't buy brains yet they somehow know everything regardless) the insurance company would not approve you. My advice is to keep the yacht fantasy just like the dominatrix one because the reality of it sucks!

[seadog!]

Yachting-

Wash the boat, dry the boat. Wash the boat, dry the boat.

Kinda like "Wax on, wax off"
It gets old REAL fast.

Only look at Mega Yachts- Live aboard owners, no charters.
Usually decent pay, paid travel, exotic port calls, great chow, lots of toys to play with.

[cappy208]

To further amplify:

1. The TOAR you get is dependent upon what type of towing you actually do. You can't be on a river push boat and get a NC TOAR. Some companies have a TOAR which is specific to the type of jobs they do. E.G. One has a TOAR concentrating on assist work. This is all the 'towing' they do. And another has both assist and conventional towing. But some companies have a generic form, and it sort of slides through the cracks, depending on what boat you're on.
A tow in LIS is Inland. While down the coast would be NC.

2. You have a 'Greater than 200 ton' license. How the TOAR works for someone like you is: Once you complete a TOAR, and have a letter from the company attesting to you having 30 days experience on a towing vessel you are deemed "qualified" to stand a navigation watch. Upon your next license renewal (or upgrade) you would submit these documents (the TOAR and the 30 day letter) and you will have the endorsement MTV added to your license.

3. Yes

4. Seatime with some time as operator of any vessels, and some of that has to be aboard vessels over 100 tons. And then more exams.

5. You need some time upon vessels OVER 1600 tons to do this.

You can work on a yacht as Mate. This actually is the job of being the boat bitch, and at the owners beck and call. And you will be blamed for everything that is wrong, and when the head gets clogged. The difference between a Mate and a Masters job is that you may be the one fired if you are 'in charge of clogging the head' if you are the Mate, and If you are the Captain you will probably be the one firing the Mate, as opposed to getting fired from the Owner. P.S. The title Mate on a yacht generally is NOT synonymous with an actual watch standing Mate on any other vessel. Alot of Captain/Mate teams are Husband and Wife combos, or long term couples who work in these positions.

You may get a job as a Captain or a Mate on a little yacht, but as mentioned, any thing that pays well, generally has a more knowledgeableowner or manager who would not dream of letting you loose as a Captain without years of experience and personal letters of recommendation to prove your worth.

I have found yachts generally pay around 1,000 a foot as Captain. A 100 footer pays around 100,000 per year. so say on a 50 footer you are looking at 50 grand. And on a yacht you are married to it for the whole year. No time off, No personal days, No vaca. BUT, this is all dependent upon an impeccable resume, and prior yacht experience (as Master).

[water]

To further amplify:


And on a yacht you are married to it for the whole year. No time off, No personal days, No vaca. BUT, this is all dependent upon an impeccable resume, and prior yacht experience (as Master).

Exactly! But if you get on the right yacht with the right owner, it can be a great gig, and you are treated as part of the family. But those gigs are fewer and further between. If the right one comes along it would be a great gig.

Commercial is great because you (usually) know when you'll be home.

[mustang9189]

Thank you for all the insight. Unfortunately I can't go and get my money back for the taxpayers. I would if I could. My school had absolutely no training for tug boats. One last question.
What is the TOAR limited?

[Cal]

5. Is it possible to upgrade to my 2/M unlimited if I am only working on tug boats less than 100 tons.

As stated, under 100 tons, no. However, I don't believe the time would have to be over 1,600 either.

Contrast your license with mine. I submitted for a 1600 Ton Mate and a 3rd Mate Unlimited with the expectation of a tonnage restriction. Initially the evaluator told me there would be a 1000 Ton restriction. After the double secret black box evaluator did their job it ended up being a 2000 Ton restriction. I guess it didn't make any sense to have a 1600 Ton lower level license and an upper level license with restriction to a lesser tonnage. Most of my sea service was on a tug over 200 tons, that was the "loophole" that allowed me to get my 3rd Mate. If I am interpreting the CFR's correctly, I can upgrade to 2nd Mate with 180 days on a tug in oceans/near coastal service over 100 tons while serving as Mate. I will still have a tonnage restriction on my unlimited license.

I would suggest becoming well versed with 46 CFR 11.

[jdcavo]

…I know I will need to get a TOAR but would I need a Near Coastal or Inland TOAR to be operating in new york harbor and runs in long island sound or down the coast?

You will need near coastal if you operate beyond the “boundary line.” In New York, this is seaward of Ambrose. The near coastal route is considered “superior” to inland, so having the N/C license or TOAR will be enough to operate inland (but not western rivers).

…If I get on a boat with a DE and get my toar, what is my next step... and will that toar give me a master or mate of towing endorsement?

If you have a license as mate or master over 200 GRT, you can serve as mate or master (depending on your license) on a towing vessel after getting at least 30 days under observation and training on a towing vessel, and completing the appropriate TOAR. Without prior towing vessel experience, it will almost certainly take you more than 30 days to legitimately complete the TOAR. If you do that, you can operate on towing vessels without the towing vessel license, as long as you carry the completed TOAR and proof of the 30 days service. But you would be wise to get the endorsement added at the first renewal or other opportunity, that way if you lose the TOAR you are not out of luck and have to start over.

…Is my 3/M License equal to a 100 ton master? I Looked in the CFR's and I couldnt find it anywhere.

See 46 CFR 15.901(a). A 3rd Mate license allows you to work as master on a vessel less than 100 GRT.

…Is it possible to upgrade to my 2/M unlimited if I am only working on tug boats less than 100 tons.

On vessels under 100 GRT, no. See 46 CFR 11.402. All of your time has to be on vessels over 200 GRT. If all of your time is over 200 GRT, but less than half is under 1600 GRT, you will get a tonnage limit (yes, a limit on an “unlimited” license).

[jdcavo]

Thank you for all the insight. Unfortunately I can't go and get my money back for the taxpayers. I would if I could. My school had absolutely no training for tug boats. One last question.
What is the TOAR limited?

It's for a license that will be restricted to a small geographic area on the western rivers.

[dougpine]

Thank you for all the insight. Unfortunately I can't go and get my money back for the taxpayers. I would if I could. My school had absolutely no training for tug...

KP strikes again. Why am I not surprised? I'm sorry they didn't prepare you in a way that would serve a newly minted mariner for the real world. Well, you've come to the right place for help!

[KPEngineer]

Tugboats will be VERY different from anything you experienced at KP. Learning to navigate a ship across the ocean is not the same as driving a tugboat across NY harbor. They require different skill sets. You can't really blame the school though, the tug and barge industry isn't why the school is there.

Go in with the same attitude as indoc ... Mouth shut, eyes and ears open. Every time the boat moves there is an opportunity to learn. Work hard, help with everything (including cooking and cleaning if need be) and don't worry about what counts towards what upgrade or what license Become proficient at your job and that all will work itself out,

[KennyW1983]

Work hard, help with everything (including cooking and cleaning if need be) and don't worry about what counts towards what upgrade or what license Become proficient at your job and that all will work itself out,

You WILL be the one cooking and cleaning as the new deckhand. If I were you I would use that 3rd mates license and make the big bucks. If I could go back and do it again I would have went to one of the Acadamys