Very confused about if I might be able to upgrade

[Shadaytree]

First off I'm new to the forum but have done some research on it and couldn't find an answer. I graduated from an academy with a 3rd mate unlimited. I now work on the great lakes on an ATB. I know that you can upgrade to a 2nd with just sea time but its inland not oceans. And second what can I do to maybe get a 1600 master. I also have afew years seatime on harbor tugs. Thanks in advance.

[Shellback]

Here is the 2nd mate and 1600 master check list..In case you didn't already have them...

ST, I don't see any provision for inland time on the checklist..

.I always wondered if an academy grad has to have the 1440 days required for 1600 ton master or is there a shorter way to this license..?

http://www.uscg.mil/nmc/checklists/M...+AGT.pdf&B1=GO!

http://www.uscg.mil/nmc/checklists/m...1600.pdf&B1=GO!

[cappy208]

It depends on how long you have been out of jail. There is a deadline (not sure of the date) that if you took your exam after a certain date, all you need is seatime to upgrade.
Sounds like you will have to get the inland, and then go work coastwise on deck to get seatime on either 'coastwise' or 'oceans' to upgrade to NC or oceans. But, I believe any upgrade to either NC or oceans will require you to take the whole exam again. You can do the 'limited crossover' exam once you have a 2nd to get 1600 ton master. But you will have to either take a celestial class or do the exam at the REC. The seatime you will need to get NC or oceans will need to be ON a coastwise or ocean tug or OSV though.

You DON'T need to do the apprentice thing, since your license is better than a MOTV license. Once you get a 1600 all you need is a completed TOAR and evidence of 30 days aboard a UTV. And your TOAR must be signed by a Designated Examiner (DE.)

Actually, I think your license is already equal to a 500 ton master, so you could switch over to tugs, with just the TOAR and 30 days (provided you CAN complete a TOAR, and be judged competent by the DE in 30 days.)

How long ago, and was your time on harbor tugs as DH?

[Shadaytree]

Thanks for the quick responses I like this site already. And I graduated in december of 09. Worked harbor tugs as DH AB. I already have my TOAR and c-nav I took with my license. Are you saying you think I might need to take it again for either upgrade. In the checklist out says I need NC or oceans time unless I already have 1600 inland license.

[Mr 100-ton]

I thought that the third mate unlimited license came with a 100 ton master built into it so to speak,,,not 500 ton master,,, with 360 8 hours days on an unlimited vessel you can receive a 2nd mate unlimited and do the 70 question test for 1600 master.

this thread on gcaptain
Third mate unlimited to a second mate unlimited with near coastal or inland time

and this one

unlimited tonnage???

might help you out

[Jeffrox]

I thought that the third mate unlimited license came with a 100 ton master built into it so to speak,,,not 500 ton master,,, with 360 8 hours days on an unlimited vessel you can receive a 2nd mate unlimited and do the 70 question test for 1600 master.

Comes with "less than" 100 ton master.

[New3M]

Comes with "less than" 100 ton master.

Yea it's a 99 ton master.

[Shellback]

Yea it's a 99 ton master.

New 2 M . isn't it something along the lines of " authority to operate in the CAPACITY of a Master of vessels less than 100 Tons" ..?

[jdcavo]

I thought that the third mate unlimited license came with a 100 ton master built into it ...

It doesn't come with it per se. There is a manning equivalency in 46 CFR Part 15 that lets anyone with a mate license for 200 GRT or more serve as master of a vessel less than 100 GRT. So it's actually good up to the infinitessinally small difference between "less than 100" and 100.

[Mr 100-ton]

It doesn't come with it per se. There is a manning equivalency in 46 CFR Part 15 that lets anyone with a mate license for 200 GRT or more serve as master of a vessel less than 100 GRT. So it's actually good up to the infinitessinally small difference between "less than 100" and 100.

Mr. Cavo, I think that you are referring to this CFR 46 § 15.901 Inspected vessels of less than 100 gross tons.
(a) An individual holding a license as mate or pilot of inspected, self-propelled vessels of over 200 gross tons is authorized to serve as master on inspected vessels of less than 100 gross tons within any restrictions on the individual's license.

If I read it correctly it means that you must hold a license GREATER than 200 tons for the 100 master to kick in,,, meaning that you would need a 500 ton mate license not a 200 ton mate license

is this correct???

[skycowboy]

Why is it that you first have to have a law degree to figure out how to upgrade ????????

[Shellback]

Why is it that you first have to have a law degree to figure out how to upgrade ????????

Ah Sky, it really isn't that bad...

Step 1...Find and read the CFR's that apply to your situation..Okay, maybe a law degree would come in handy but you are resourceful sailor and you manage to get through it..

STep 2..You locate the check list and discover that it differs with the CFR's , which one should you believe ? No one seems to know the answer to that but they refer you to the policy letter that covers your particular upgrade..Everyone assures you that all will be revealed ...

Step 3. Policy letter..This is where you really get to have fun as you are find out that the some things in the CFR's aren't relevant any longer and have been superceded and that because of STCW , most of what you thought you had a handle on is now useless information..Now you know less than you did in the first place...

Okay, maybe your right Sky, that law degree is looking pretty good right now..

[anchorman]

Why is it that you first have to have a law degree to figure out how to upgrade ????????

A law degree would not help. The CFR's have not been up-to-date in decades. Alan Spackman wrote a pretty good submission recently on regulations.gov

http://www.regulations.gov/#!documen...11-0015-0014.2

[jdcavo]

Correct. Mate Not More han 200 GRT isn't sufficient, you would bneed at least the next highest level, Mate Not More than 500 GRT,

[skycowboy]

I couldn't even read all the way through Alan Spackman submission with out getting a headache.