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Thread: My company is attempting to build a new ship.......or should they?????

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    linky2121 is offline gCaptain Crew
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    Default My company is attempting to build a new ship.......or should they?????

    My company John w. stone and oil had plans to build a new vessel to replace the Stone Buccaneer. The keel was going to be laid down sometime in 2011 but then the deepwater horizon happenend. Our work slowed down bigtime with the stone explorer being laid up. Things are begining to pick up again. The new vessel is supposed to be state of the art etc....with another to follow.

    This of course may or may not happen. The said vessels would cost anywhere from 40-80 million. I recently looked online at ship brokerages and some double hulled/bottom vessels built in korea or china would be about 13 million. We would want to go the dp route and the current vessel plans have us looking like a dive support vessel or a Chouset supply boat with the house forward.

    What does the all knowing board think? Would it be easier to buy a ship from a foreign outfit and have it go in the shipyard for rennovations. Would we have a problem with abs? with the jones act for that matter? I think having an unlimited vessel is out of the queston for now b/c of manning requirements and solas etc.....

    Discuss!
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    cmakin is offline Top Contributer
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    Default Re: My company is attempting to build a new ship.......or should they?????

    Quote Originally Posted by linky2121 View Post
    My company John w. stone and oil had plans to build a new vessel to replace the Stone Buccaneer. The keel was going to be laid down sometime in 2011 but then the deepwater horizon happenend. Our work slowed down bigtime with the stone explorer being laid up. Things are begining to pick up again. The new vessel is supposed to be state of the art etc....with another to follow.

    This of course may or may not happen. The said vessels would cost anywhere from 40-80 million. I recently looked online at ship brokerages and some double hulled/bottom vessels built in korea or china would be about 13 million. We would want to go the dp route and the current vessel plans have us looking like a dive support vessel or a Chouset supply boat with the house forward.

    What does the all knowing board think? Would it be easier to buy a ship from a foreign outfit and have it go in the shipyard for rennovations. Would we have a problem with abs? with the jones act for that matter? I think having an unlimited vessel is out of the queston for now b/c of manning requirements and solas etc.....

    Discuss!
    ABS would not be a problem. In fact, you are not obligated to use ABS as your Class society. I would imagine that there are Jones Act/US Flag, builder and crewing concerns, but those are largely outside of my direct knowledge.
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    Default Re: My company is attempting to build a new ship.......or should they?????

    If it isn't built in the USA, How are you going to flag it Red White and Blue
    If you hear me yell "Eject,"Eject Eject. the last two will be echos. If you stop to ask why? you'll be talking to yourself, because by then you'll be the Pilot
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    Steamer is online now Top Contributer
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    Default Re: My company is attempting to build a new ship.......or should they?????

    Quote Originally Posted by skycowboy View Post
    If it isn't built in the USA, How are you going to flag it Red White and Blue
    You fill out an application for a document and pay the fee.
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    Default Re: My company is attempting to build a new ship.......or should they?????

    It has to be a US built vessel due to the fact that it will strictly be used in the coastwise trade of moving fuel oil from refineries to the of Furchon, Venice, and where ever else Stone has a fuel dock.
    Getting straight with Nate, because apparently getting right means your going to have to retake Nav Gen
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    anchorman is offline Super Moderator
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    Default Re: My company is attempting to build a new ship.......or should they?????

    Quote Originally Posted by Steamer View Post
    You fill out an application for a document and pay the fee.
    That is a big negative ghost rider...
    "Captain standard operating procedure for decision making is to do what feels right to you at the time, and then to give logical sounding justifications for what you were already going to do anyway" -
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    Steamer is online now Top Contributer
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    Default Re: My company is attempting to build a new ship.......or should they?????

    "That is a big negative ghost rider..."

    The question was how can a foreign built ship be flagged US. That is the answer, that is how you flag it "red white and blue."

    Just because it is US flagged does not mean it is eligible for Jones Act trade but that is another issue entirely that was not part of the question. Even then if it is a drug seizure or substantially rebuilt the exclusion doesn't apply. A prudent mariner only answers the question that was asked.
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    anchorman is offline Super Moderator
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    Default Re: My company is attempting to build a new ship.......or should they?????

    Quote Originally Posted by Steamer View Post
    "That is a big negative ghost rider..."

    The question was how can a foreign built ship be flagged US. That is the answer, that is how you flag it "red white and blue."

    Just because it is US flagged does not mean it is eligible for Jones Act trade but that is another issue entirely that was not part of the question. Even then if it is a drug seizure or substantially rebuilt the exclusion doesn't apply. A prudent mariner only answers the question that was asked.
    My statement was to your answer, not the question. A prudent mariner would also address the context as not to be misleading. Yes, you could get a US flag on a foreign vessel fairly easy, but getting the coast wise endorsement for the vessel to work as the replacement of the Stone Bucaneer - that just isn't going to happen with a fee and an application.
    "Captain standard operating procedure for decision making is to do what feels right to you at the time, and then to give logical sounding justifications for what you were already going to do anyway" -
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    Default Re: My company is attempting to build a new ship.......or should they?????

    Quote Originally Posted by linky2121 View Post
    Would it be easier to buy a ship from a foreign outfit and have it go in the shipyard for rennovations. Would we have a problem with abs? with the jones act for that matter? I think having an unlimited vessel is out of the queston for now b/c of manning requirements and solas etc.....
    Nothing like trying to break the backs of the American labor force with slave labor and foreign subsidise. You probably buy your American flags from China too.... evidently for decorative purposes only.
    The time for taking all measures for a ship's safety is while still able to do so. Nothing is more dangerous than for a seaman to be grudging in taking precautions lest they turn out to have been unnecessary. Safety at sea for a thousand years has depended on exactly the opposite philosophy.
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    Default Re: My company is attempting to build a new ship.......or should they?????

    Steamer...as always, you are 100% correct. Virtually the entire US flagged foreign going merchant fleet is now foreign built as are most of the RRF ships for that matter. The coastwise fleet is what remains US built but except for workboats, that fleet is ancient! How many steamships is Horizon still running as is Sea Star, ATC, et all.? Except the tankers built to replace those OPA 90'd out, the 2 ro/ro's for Tote and the last tow containerships for Matson, I don't think there has been a US built merchant ship since Regan killed the CDS.

    As you mentioned, the exemptions come when a ship has been seized for smuggling or a war prize or has been wrecked in US waters and rebuilt in a US yard only then allows a foreign built hull to obtain coastwise trade privledges. An Act of Congress being another means but as corrupt as Congress is, that has not proven to be viable way for shipowners to go. Otherwise, as a shipowner you have got to suck it up and build in the good ol US of A.

    This of course, brings up a very thorny issue of the preverbial double edged sword. Demand US build for coastwise trade to supposedly preserve work for US shipbuilders and their labor force (which hasn't worked as far as deepsea tonnage goes) or allow foreign built ships to obtain coastwise trade endorsements and create business for US shipping companies and jobs for US mariners (which I personally believe would work). If I could go to the world market to find a little feeder sized tanker or container carrier and not be forced to pay three times as much for the same ship from a US yard, I think we would see many more little ships like the STONE BUCKANEER running around our ports. I really would like for the jobs for the workers in the yards to be protected as are the jobs for the mariners and I do believe that there are ways that a new Merchant Marine Act could address these matters but the existing statutes are just too antiquated for the modern world and there are too many competing interests in Washington to get any meaningful legislation passed that would fix this.

    it's a bloody pity is all I can say...
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    Default Re: My company is attempting to build a new ship.......or should they?????

    they'll put an office in houston...................................
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    linky2121 is offline gCaptain Crew
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    Default Re: My company is attempting to build a new ship.......or should they?????

    intresting comments.........

    If the ship was to be unlimited, what would the draw backs be? I am not sure myself but I assume things are way more stringent concerning coast guard inspections and ABS. I have not sailed on an unlimited vessel since 2003 so I am unfamiliar. Does the crew have to be 18 or so people? right now we have 10 on the old buc. I know from our competition hos that the centerline and strongline in Tanker configuration crew 18 people. otherwise they are another supply boat so to speak.
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