Advanced Firefighting for Master/OIM

[GOMariner]

Sent my paperwork in for my Master/OIM and they told me since my Firefighting cert was over 5 years old I have to retake it . I used it for my Ch.Mate 2 years ago and had no problem and it was over 5 yrs old . Anyone else had this problem?

[Capt. Lee]

I looked on the general checklist for Master and it was not listed as a requirement. I will be applying shortly for Master AGT, also. I do have a valid Advanced Fire Fighting Certificate. I guess I should include it, just to be on the safe side, but I do not see why they would require you to have it. The company I work for requires an Basic and Advanced Fire Fighting to be taken every 5 years. Good Luck to you.

[Diesel]

I thought that if you were actively sailing, undergoing drills and active training that Advanced Fire and other STCW requirements (with the exception of radar) were lifetime requirements as far as the CG was concerned. Has this changed?

[anchorman]

I thought that if you were actively sailing, undergoing drills and active training that Advanced Fire and other STCW requirements (with the exception of radar) were lifetime requirements as far as the CG was concerned. Has this changed?

There will be refresher requirements starting when STCW 2010 amendments go into effect - regardless of upgrading endorsements. That will depend on how the USCG interprets these changes and how much flexibility the member states have within the framework. But as it is now.....

46 CFR 11.205(d) Firefighting certificate. Applicants for officer endorsements in the following categories must present a certificate of completion from a firefighting course of instruction which has been approved by the Commandant. The course must meet both the basic and advanced sections of the International Maritime Organization's (IMO) Resolution A.437 (XI) Training of Crews in Firefighting. (Available from the International Maritime Organization (IMO), 4 Albert Embankment, London SE1 7SR, England, telephone: + 44 (0)20 7735 7611, http://www.imo.org ). The course must have been completed within five years before the date of application for the officer endorsement requested.
"(4) All officer endorsements for MODUs."

[brjones]

I was told that regardless of service, everyone will have to take some sort of refresher every 5 years starting in 2011

[anchorman]

I was told that regardless of service, everyone will have to take some sort of refresher every 5 years starting in 2011

It sure looks like it.

[jdcavo]

Generally, Advanced Fire Fighting was taken to be a one-time requirement, but this looks to be contrary to a plain reading of 46 CFR 11.205(d): "[t]he course must have been completed within five years of the date of application..." There is nothing in that it doesn't apply to future upgrades. The above notwithstanding, it has been the practice for many years to only require the course ponce, reghardless of when the course was taken.

[jdcavo]

I was told that regardless of service, everyone will have to take some sort of refresher every 5 years starting in 2011

Not necesarily, at least not yet. The effective date for the 2010 Amendments to STCW is January 1, 2012, and there is a 5-year implementation period. Also, while the requirement to refresh portions of basic and advanced fire fighting (and BST, Proficiency in Survival Craft and Fast Rescue Boat) is in the 2010 amendements, the United States has yet to publish regulations or policy on how the amendments will be implemented.

[seadawg]

IHHO..if I understand this correctly??this seems like a excessive finacial burden to renew after 2012..what with the future cost of NMC evalution, MMC issue, physical, drug screen, radar, BRM, BST, AFF, PSC, FRB, FL, and whatever else they decide to come up with between now and then..curious as to how the mariners of other STCW flag states will be able to comply with this??

[seadog6608]

IMHO, our independence as a nation is once again under attack as we kowtow to the united nations and allow international law to supercede our federal law.

[Steamer]

..curious as to how the mariners of other STCW flag states will be able to comply with this??

The CG will accept their very low cost training certificates when they apply for a USCG endorsement so they can fill all the jobs vacated by Americans who can no longer afford the training.

[Orniphobe]

the United States has yet to publish regulations or policy on how the amendments will be implemented.

Mr. Cavo, when will the U.S. NPRM be published? I hope there's plenty of lead time. I have Canadians in my crew that already have to take a new ECDIS course that meets the Manila Amendments by 2012, or they can't renew. Companies have to budget for training and it makes it difficult for the American mariners to get the training when the US waits until the last minute as we did with the Chief Mate classes in 2002.

[anchorman]

Mr. Cavo, when will the U.S. NPRM be published? I hope there's plenty of lead time. I have Canadians in my crew that already have to take a new ECDIS course that meets the Manila Amendments by 2012, or they can't renew. Companies have to budget for training and it makes it difficult for the American mariners to get the training when the US waits until the last minute as we did with the Chief Mate classes in 2002.

Wow. I guess it's a good thing that we're not forced to take certain courses till the NPRM process unfolds. That process alone seems to give us (at least) some lead time, but it does seem the US is last to implement changes due to the process we use. I doubt the NPRM comes out sometime next year with a deadline of Jan 1st.......I'm sure most comments on the docket will specifically be in reference to your same concerns - especially from the schools.

[Black_Angel]

Reading the title of 46 CFR 11.205 it says: § 11.205 Requirements for original officer endorsements and STCW endorsements.

(a) General. In addition to the requirements in part 10 of this chapter and §§11.201 through 11.203 of this part, the applicant for an original officer endorsement must also satisfy the requirements of this section.


It's clear that this requirement applies only to an ORIGINAL. Since you are upgrading it shouldn't apply to you. I'm facing the same thing right now, upgrading from 1600 Master to 3rd Mate and they are telling me that I need to take Advanced Firefighting again. By any chance is your evaluator William Withers?

[jdcavo]

Mr. Cavo, when will the U.S. NPRM be published?

I can't comment on proposed rule making, and if or once it's published, I can't comment in this forum. All I can add is that the 2010 amendments to the STCW have an implementation date of January, 2012 and we are obviously trying to be in compliance by that date. If we propose additional regs beyond what was in the the NPRM published in November, 2009, it would be a Supplemental NPRM (SNPRM). All rule making has a minimum of 30 days to become effective. Anything beyond that would be specified in the rule. If we propose any changes in the SNPRM from what was in the NPRM, there will be another comment period, followed by the final rule.

The 2010 amendments have a full implementation date of 2017, so mariners already having STCW endorsements will have until their next renewal to meet some of the new requirements. The 2010 STCW is posted on the SOCP web page at
http://www.socp.us/index.php?option=...d=63&Itemid=27