AB Special Requirement Confusion

[David W]

I have researched the AB posts, but have not quite found what I'm looking for - the complete Idiots guide to earning an AB Special MMD. This is where I'm at; I have 400+ days of sea time (small vessel sea service form), TWIC card, the physical (form CG-719K), Dot/USCG Drug testing.

My confusion is over whether I need to take SCTW (and other courses) before I go to the CG Regional Exam Center, in order to qualify for an AB Special. At present I have no MMD, but my understanding is that I would qualify for AB Special, given my sea time. I could really use some assistance as to the proper order of business. Thanks for an informative site.

[Conspearasea]

You are going to need Basic Safety training and Proficiency is Survival Craft in order to avoid an OSV restriction put on your AB special. There also is a minimum size of the vessel for the sea service to qualify, I have heard from several sources several answers of course....all of which came from RECs and the NMC. Some have been told over time, 15GRT minimum, and others have said something like 55feet + - . I don't have a specific CFR referencing this, but I have had tons of dealings with people getting credentials and most have told me of the different "requirements" requested. Regardless, smaller vessel sea service forms are not likely going to qualify, so you should try to find the right figures if the vessel was smaller than 15grt or 55 ft +- .

AT any rate, you should complete the courses prior to submitting your application to help the process go smoother....just be sure your sea time will qualify, and have all the ducks in a row on your letter. Sea service letters have been looked over very closely as of late in my experience!

[David W]

Thanks for that, Conspearasea. That answers my questions, I believe. I wasn't sure if I needed to take the courses prior to submitting my application. My sea time is all on boats larger than 15GRT.

I have been looking into courses. Looks like I'll head up to Clatsop Community College for them, Classes here in the San Francisco Bay Area seem prohibitively expensive. Both BST and Proficiency in Survival Craft courses are both over $1000, (at two different schools) while they are less than $300 at the above mentioned.

Would the OSV restriction be lifted as soon as I completed the courses? I would like to get some kind of MMD ASAP. I think I'd better follow your advice, "to help the process go smoother". Thanks, again.

[seadawg]

IMHO..these sites may be of use??

http://www.uscg.mil/nmc/checklists/M...B.pdf&B1=GO%21

http://www.uscg.mil/nmc/checklists/M...W.pdf&B1=GO%21

http://www.uscg.mil/nmc/training/dec...ring_guide.pdf

http://www.uscg.mil/nmc/

[Ea$y Money]

The OSV rating has nothing to do with BST, it is a seatime issue, 6 months vs. 1 year. If you don't have any rating now you will need to attend an AB class that includes marlinspike seamanship. You might still be able to take the marliespike course by itself and test for the AB rating at the coast guard, but I wouldn't recommend that option.

You will have to hold ( as in already attended and passed ) BST, AB ( including marlinspike ). The other thing I would suggest if money is no object is taking a lifeboatman course. It will provide you an AB ticket without a restriction for vessels without lifeboats. You get a halfassed PSC without it and you wont be allowed to serve on vessels with lifeboats.

It is confusing. Read the CFR's, check the links in the post below, and good luck.

[Sf_deckhand]

In order to get an AB special, the only course you need to take is the Lifeboatman (which is the domestic name for Proficiency in Survival Craft). This will be good enough for inland waters. (Of course you also have to either pass the CG AB exam, or take an approved AB course instead.)

However, if you would like your AB Special to include a STCW certificate for Proficiency in Survival Craft, you have to take BST. This will allow you to serve as a Lifeboatman, or an OS with a Lifeboatman endorsement on Near Coastal and Oceans vessels.

If you would like to serve as an AB (Special) aboard STCW regulated Near Coastal and Oceans vessels, you will, in addition to taking BST, Proficiency in Survival Craft, need to acquire the STCW qualification of RFPNW (Rating Forming Part of a Navigational Watch). RFPNW is a whole other ball of wax. Search the forums to your hearts content to learn more about it.

I hope this is helpful. Some of the advice you see above is confusing the requirements for ABs that work near coastal and oceans with those that work inland. BST is not required for an AB rating on inland waters.

[Conspearasea]

How many inland boats are required to carry ABs? Not very many.

If you want to avoid all the restrictions, like I originally stated, Get BST. You can get an AB w/o taking BST....( but can you actually find a job w/ that ? Good luck ). Anyone care to share many active openings for inland ABs?

In this job market your best bet is to avoid as many restrictions as possible. Take the 3 classes mentioned, PSC, BST and AB and turn those into the CG.

Do yourself a favor and get all 3.

Skip BST and you are stuck inland.

Skip PSC and you are stuck w/ an OSV, and combined w/ not having BST.....you won't get a job.

Skip AB course and you will still have to complete a marlinspike course plus test at the Coast guard.


Like mentioned, learn about RFPNW, it's a whole topic of its own to learn.

Anyone disagree that can point him to a decent job w/ an AB OSV that doesn't have BST?

EDIT: Sorry if I seemed to add "confusion" to your ability to actually get an AB w/o STCW training...but your AB w/o those courses holds very little value in the job market. HTH, and sorry if I seem an a hole, but if you are going to do it....do it right and give yourself a real chance to use the AB rating.

[Mr 100-ton]

can also do the RFPNW ont he simulator that will help out if an AB goes international

[David W]

Thanks for making this all much clearer. Lots of hoops to jump through, but now I have a good understanding of what I need to do. Just wondered, sf_deckhand, or anyone else,if you knew much about the job prospects in the Bay Area.

[kfj]

Ive emailed the USCG regarding the size of boats regarding AB special and they always say look at the checklist and it says ANY vessel. Ive read that it had to be over 65' or 100tons but the checklist only says something about size on Limited.

[Conspearasea]

Lots of hoops to jump through, .

Welcome to the Mariner Credentialing program! The hoops only get higher and trickier to get through the more credentials you acquire.

As KFJ notes, I can tell you that the Limited is all of your time, 540 days, over 100 GRT. The others, including the unlimited, have a lot of room for interpretation. My knowledge of the different size vessels people have been told, comes from being affiliated with a maritime school in the past. Several different "replies" were given to many different students trying to get an AB, this was prior to the NMC taking over. Never found anything in writing, but have seen many denials due to vessel sizes....FWIW.

Again, good luck, and practice your "hoop jumping" ; you are going to need it as things continue to change.

[Sf_deckhand]

Well, looks like I did my part to confuse things as well!

Regarding Conspearasea's point. They're right, BST is helpful in the job market. And yes, there are very limited opportunities for inland ABs.

From my own experience, BST was helpful because it allowed me to get a STCW certificate for Proficiency in Survival Craft. Doesn't mean much, but at least it was an STCW certificate for something.

However, again from my own experience, and perhaps someone can point me in the direction of some jobs, but I've found that BST plus PSC plus AB means also means very little in the job market without RFPNW. And you can't get RFPNW without a lot more time on over 100 ton vessels.....(simulator training notwithstanding).

So, anyhow, I think the consesus seems to be, and I agree, take all the courses that your seatime allows, get the most cerficates and training. That would be BST, PSC, and the AB class.

Regarding job opportunites in the bay area, most of my experience there was through a union called MMP. With MMP you can contact companies directly (Blue and Gold Fleet (tour boats), Westar Marine(crew boats), Bay and Delta (escort tugs), and get on their casual lists. It doesnt start as real work, but its a way to get a toe in. Wintertime will be slow. Also, you can sign up at the IBU hall now for their intro class (pretty much the only way in) which will take place sometime this summer. They have most of the union deck work throughout the bay, and your AB might be worth something there.

Besides that, there is all the non-union work: Hornblower, Five Star, Angel Island Tiburon Ferry, Commodore, and all the small boats that go out with tourists. Check pier 39, fisherman's wharf area. Again, there will be more work in the summer.

Good luck!

[David W]

Just wanted to say thanks again to everyone for all the great info. After 25 years in commercial fishing, I thought it would be a good idea to at least create other possible options, that might also afford more home time than fishing has allowed. I've narrowed down taking the courses in Astoria, through the MERTS program(Clatsop Community College), where the cost is about 1/3 of those at Cal Maritime or Maritime Institute, Inc. I've also heard MERTS is a much more relaxed learning environment.I'll report my findings.

Good luck to all

[Cal]

Just a little note to add about an AB course vs. Marlinspike and testing at the Coast Guard. A coworker held an AB Limited that he had obtained using the second option. When he went to upgrade to an AB Unlimited the USCG required him to take an AB class. This is consistent with the International standards approach. They don't care if you can past the test, they want your butt in a chair in a classroom for XX number of hours regardless.

[Shellback]

Just wanted to say thanks again to everyone for all the great info. After 25 years in commercial fishing, I thought it would be a good idea to at least create other possible options, that might also afford more home time than fishing has allowed. I've narrowed down taking the courses in Astoria, through the MERTS program(Clapsop Community College), where the cost is about 1/3 of those at Cal Maritime or Maritime Institute, Inc. I've also heard MERTS is a much more relaxed learning environment.I'll report my findings.

Good luck to all

Clatsop has a nice setting, back in the trees off the main highway ,colder than heck in the winter though...Just plan like you would for a sail around Alcatraz in Dec and you should be just right..

[Shellback]

IMHO..these sites may be of use??

http://www.uscg.mil/nmc/checklists/M...B.pdf&B1=GO%21

http://www.uscg.mil/nmc/checklists/M...W.pdf&B1=GO%21

http://www.uscg.mil/nmc/training/dec...ring_guide.pdf

http://www.uscg.mil/nmc/

Seadawg, thanks for posting these links..I have had several reasons to use them lately and it's way faster than going to the NMC site ...

Also, does anyone happen to have a copy of the 200 Ton Master NC and Oceans Checklist ..The NMC site doesn't seem to display them anymore..Thanks..

[jdcavo]

Ive emailed the USCG regarding the size of boats regarding AB special and they always say look at the checklist and it says ANY vessel. Ive read that it had to be over 65' or 100tons but the checklist only says something about size on Limited.

The only AB endorsement with restrictions on the tonnage/size of the vessels the service was acquired on is AB-Limited, the service must be on vessels over 100 GRT.

[seadawg]

does anyone happen to have a copy of the 200 Ton Master NC and Oceans Checklist ..The NMC site doesn't seem to display them anymore..Thanks..

IMHO..here is an old checklist from my personal archive..if you plan on using this suggest you have the NMC update and bonify beforehand!!

http://www.uscg.mil/nmc/checklists/M..._Checklist.pdf

**note that STCW is not addressed??

as far as the oceans endorsement..all that should still be required is the passing of an approved celestial course??

[Shellback]

IMHO..here is an old checklist from my personal archive..if you plan on using this suggest you have the NMC update and bonify beforehand!!

http://www.uscg.mil/nmc/checklists/M..._Checklist.pdf

**note that STCW is not addressed??

as far as the oceans endorsement..all that should still be required is the passing of an approved celestial course??

How many guys you know have their own personal stash of NMC checklists...? Is this place great or what...Thanks Seadawg

[malik]

So I have a slightly different question......

I have AB Unlimited Any Waters, Lifeboatman (reciently reissued 10/2010). However, I have been out of the business for many years and do NOT have STCW, BST or RFPNW.

I also have 100 ton master NC, and 500 ton Mater NC.

What are my posibilities of getting an AB job???

Malik