RFPNW

[trekleader]

Hi all

I am trying to get NMC to remove the "lookout duties only" restriction removed from my STCW certificate. I took a class last year. My understanding was that after I took that class, I had a year to acquire 60 additional days on appropriate tonnage and routes to get the final 3 assessments signed off. This I did, and turned in my application to the REC. This morning I got a call from an evaluator at NMC saying that I needed to have not 60, but 180 days to get the qualification. This I do not have.

I've written the following letter. Would you people here mind looking at it and letting me know if there is something else I might be able to do or state differently in order to support my point of view?



"We spoke the morning of 17 Nov 08 over the phone in regards to your concern about my application for removing the "Lookout Duties Only" restriction from my STCW certificate.

NMC Policy letter 14-02 Enclosure (1), Part 3, subsection a. states:

3. Applicants for the STCW certification must provide evidence of:

a. Either six months of approved, seagoing service that includes training and experience
associated with navigational watchkeeping functions and involves duties carried out under the
direct supervision of the master, officer in charge of the navigational watch or qualified
ratings; or

b. Satisfactory completion of a course approved or accepted as “special training” required by the STCW plus a period of approved seagoing service. The length of the period of
approved seagoing service will be specified as part of the course's approval and will not be less than two months;

The way I understand this, a mariner has 2 ways to qualify for this STCW certification. Either serve 180 days and get the 21 assessments signed off, or, take the course, which reduces the requirement to 60 days. The final 3 assessments are signed off during that period. This is what I did.

I believe that I qualify for this certification. I attended an RFPNW course. That course is accepted as "special training" required by 14-02. The seagoing service is reduced from 180 days to 60 days, and one must complete those training days within a year. I did this and turned in my application on 15 October 08.

I hope that this clears this up. I am hoping to get this certificate in order to advance in my maritime career.

Thank you for taking the time to review this with me. If you have any other concerns or questions, please don't hesitate to contact me either through my email of my cell. I will respond in a timely manner."


Thanks in advance for any help you folks might be willing to offer...

Tim

[Cheng]

Mr. James Cavo? Your attention please.

[jdcavo]

The options for obtaining RFPNW are either 180 days service performing navigational watch functionsw under supervision of the OICNW (not just sea time) and completion of the assessments, OR completion of a USCG approved RFPNW <span style="color: rgb(255,0,0)]<strong>program </strong></span>that includes at least 60 days of shipboard training. Note the second option is a comprehensive program, it's not a "course." Taking the lookout only course doesn't reduce the sea time from 180 days to 60.
There are a few approved programs, and a lot of lookout-only courses. AVTC has both, but it appears you did not follow up youir course with a training internship on a vessel facilitated by AVTC, and thus you would not be considred to have completed a "program."
The only organizations that we'd approve a program for are either vessel operatoring companuies, unions, or schools that have prior written agreements with vessel operators to place the students and provide the shipboard training. Our approval of the AVTC "program" has a requirement that \AVT^C place the student in a training internship after taking the training at their facility.
James D. Cavo

Chief, Mariner Training &amp; Assessment Division

USCG National Maritime Center

<font color="#3354aa]James.D.Cavo@uscg.mil</font>

[Cheng]

gCaptain and JDC are like having a fricken USCG Genie in a bottle. Unbelievable...

[Retired Rat]

So the lesson to be learned here is, Know the end game before you plunk down cash for a "course" you don't need. Due diligence...

[hn]

Trekleader,

I just took the RFPNW at AVTEC with all the simulator hrs. I was under the same impression you have stated, but I will add that I thought we were to send the info to the course instructor????? Maybe I am wrong. If the 60 days is not getting you signed off let me know and we can both petition for our money back, b/c that is not what we were told.

Hard to argue with Mr. Cavo as he should be in the know, but I do have another friend who did what you are saying you have done and she had no problems at all.
I guess I will wait and see what happens for me when I complete the 60 days.

-hn

[Jeffrox]

Is AVTEC misadvertising / misrepresenting what they offer? If so, refund in order - not to mention a call to the Better Business Bureau.

[trekleader]

hn: Any mistake I may have made appear to be mine alone. Listen to your instructor.

Jeffrox: I believe that AVTEC is a fantastic program, with excellent instructors. We, as students, do not absolve ourselves of responsibility when we enroll in courses. I would attend classes at AVTEC again, no problem.

[hn]

I agree that AVTEC has good instructors, facilities and does right. I figured you did not do exactly as the instructor said, but did not see another post saying you resolved the issue. Sounds like you did. Bueno!

[jdcavo]

I have edited my comment above to better explain the approvals given to AVTC. I apologize for giving a general answer to a specific question. AVTC has both an approved RFPNW program, and a lookout only course. The diffrence is that the course at AVTC's facility is followed by a training internship arrannged by AVTC after the course. It does not appear the original poster had this internship and thus would need to get 180 days of service for RFPNW.
I have no doubt AVTC acted in good faith and did not intend to mislead what their traiing would qualify a student for. In over 10 years experience I have found AVTC to be ethical and dedicated to providing good training.
James D. Cavo

Chief, Mariner Training &amp; Assessment Division

USCG National Maritime Center

<font color="#3354aa]James.D.Cavo@uscg.mil</font>

[Robert]

Thank you Mr. Cavo.
We appreciate your clarifications.




Robert Thomas
Maritime Department Head
Alaska Vocational Training Center

[brengus]

I'm a 100t Master trying to get an AB and I too am getting stuck on the RFPNW requirement. What other schools offer the course work in addition to the 60 day internship? I'm located in Maui, but will be looking for schools in the Baltimore area. All of the other requirements seem straightforward except for this one.

Mahalo for any input!

[Capt Brian]

I am being lazy for not ready all the posts and asking this question:

A 100 ton lead crew boat captain (3rd issue) wants to upgrade to his license. For him to get the AB (RFPNW) does he have to complete the assesments, even though he is the master of the crew boat, performs the duties as a OICNW on a 100 ton crew boat. Or is he exempt from doing the assesments?

Thanks

[Mr 100-ton]

I am being lazy for not ready all the posts and asking this question:

A 100 ton lead crew boat captain (3rd issue) wants to upgrade to his license. For him to get the AB (RFPNW) does he have to complete the assesments, even though he is the master of the crew boat, performs the duties as a OICNW on a 100 ton crew boat. Or is he exempt from doing the assesments?

Thanks

POLICY LETTER LINK BELOW
http://www.uscg.mil/nmc/marpers/pag/14-02.pdf

Applicants for the STCW certification must provide evidence of:
a. Either six months of approved, seagoing service that includes training and experience
associated with navigational watchkeeping functions and involves duties carried out under the
direct supervision of the master, officer in charge of the navigational watch or qualified
ratings; or
b. Satisfactory completion of a course approved or accepted as “special training” required by
the STCW plus a period of approved seagoing service. The length of the period of approved
seagoing service will be specified as part of the course's approval and will not be less than
two months; and



4. A day of approved seagoing service for qualification as a RFPNW is an eight-hour day under
training carrying out duties associated with navigational watchkeeping functions under the direct
supervision of the master, the officer in charge of a navigational watch, or a qualified rating
(STCW Regulation II/4). A qualified rating for training purposes is an able seaman holding an
STCW certificate. The applicant must provide a record showing each day, or four-hour period,
when service under training was completed. The record of sea service must include the name of
the vessel, the date(s) of the training, indicate whether it was a ocean or near coastal voyage, and
be signed by the master, chief mate, or an officer in charge of the watch who holds a license of
second mate or higher. The signing officer should include his license number. At least 50% of
the service must be performed on a seagoing vessel of at least 200 gross register tons (GRT)
(equal to 500 GT). The other 50% may be performed on seagoing vessels that meet the
requirements of reference (b) for qualification as an able seaman. All steering and helm
assessments must be completed on a vessel of at least 100 GRT.

NMC has confirmed that 50 percent must be done on 200 ton vessel and the other 50 percent can be done on a 100 ton vessel


mr too-ton

[willysko]

I had just taken the RFPNW look out only, and what i was told by the instructor is that the only person that can sign you off is a master, chief mate or officer in charge of the navigational watch, all holding a license of 2nd mate or higher. I wouldn't have taken the class if i knew this to begin with, i was told that a person holding a 1600 with oceans is qualified to endorse it for you!!!!! Can someone clear that one for me? Who exactly can sign off, and what size license do they need?
thanks

[trekleader]

According to NMC Policy Letter No. 14-02, under Requirements for Qualification of an RFPNW Section 4 "... The applicant must provide a record showing each day, or four-hour period, when service under training was completed. The record of sea service must include the name of the vessel, the date(s) of the training, indicate whether it was a ocean or near coastal voyage, and be signed by the master, chief mate, or an officer in charge of the watch who holds a license of second mate or higher. The signing officer should include his license number. At least 50% of the service must be performed on a seagoing vessel of at least 200 gross register tons (GRT)... The other 50% may be performed on... a vessel of at least 100 GRT."

It appears that a 1600 ton Masters in and of itself mayn't be sufficient. It would not be out of the realm of possibility that the holder of a 1600 ton license would also hold an OICNW STCW qualification

[Capt Brian]

willysko - Check out this thread on getting the assesments signed off for RFPNW. There is discussion on this topic, although even though the thread title is "recorded phone calls national maritime center". Hope this helps out.

Brian

[willysko]

Thanks guys, i thought it was pretty lame of the school to let you know this right after the course was done. thanks again!

[Robert]

According to NMC Policy Letter No. 14-02, under Requirements for Qualification of an RFPNW Section 4 "... The applicant must provide a record showing each day, or four-hour period, when service under training was completed. The record of sea service must include the name of the vessel, the date(s) of the training, indicate whether it was a ocean or near coastal voyage, and be signed by the master, chief mate, or an officer in charge of the watch who holds a license of second mate or higher. The signing officer should include his license number. At least 50% of the service must be performed on a seagoing vessel of at least 200 gross register tons (GRT)... The other 50% may be performed on... a vessel of at least 100 GRT."

It appears that a 1600 ton Masters in and of itself mayn't be sufficient. It would not be out of the realm of possibility that the holder of a 1600 ton license would also hold an OICNW STCW qualification

We I don't work at NMC so my opinion does not matter, but it seems to me that a 1600 ton master would be allowed by this section to sign, since it says "or an officer in charge who holds a second mate or higher." That would not seem to me to apply to the master requirement at all.

[trekleader]

Robert

You are entirely correct, I don't know how I missed the obvious...