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Thread: Recognition of Foreign STCW Certificates

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    Default Recognition of Foreign STCW Certificates

    The Coast Guard has published a notice and request for comments on development of a policy for recognition of foreign STCW certificates.

    The notice appears in the September 27, 2010 Federal Register (75 FR 59281) and is available at:
    http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/2010/pdf/2010-24154.pdf

    Comments should be submitted to the docket as described in the notice.
    James D. Cavo
    U.S. Coast Guard
    Mariner Credentialing Program
    Policy Division (CG-5434)
    James.D.Cavo@uscg.mil
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    anchorman is online now Super Moderator
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    Default Re: Recognition of Foreign STCW Certificates

    Cool. Russian Female galley hands.
    "Captain standard operating procedure for decision making is to do what feels right to you at the time, and then to give logical sounding justifications for what you were already going to do anyway" -
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    Default Re: Recognition of Foreign STCW Certificates

    Quote Originally Posted by anchorman View Post
    Cool. Russian Female galley hands.
    Wow, anchorman, only you could make that leap of topics.

    But, I am nothing if not a good sport.
    "Two twenty, two twenty-one. Whatever it takes."
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    Default Re: Recognition of Foreign STCW Certificates

    This is really creepy, they aren't talking about galley hands, they are aiming at licensed officers. It sounds like they are trying to eliminate the requirement that all officers are US citizens. The proposal starts out with putting foreign officers on US ships in the GOM oil patch but paragraph C is very very chilling.

    (C) Any other vessel if the Secretary
    determines, after an investigation, that
    qualified seamen who are citizens of the
    United States are not available.



    Who among us is "available" to work onboard for 12 months straight for $3000 per month and no benefits? When we say no to that form of indentured servitude, we are then defined as "not available" and can be replaced with a Romanian or some other STCW White List Third Worlder with a certificate newly recognized by the USCG.

    I wonder who bought and paid for this bit of corporate butchery? And more to the point, what part of our "homeland" is this supposed to secure?
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    Default Re: Recognition of Foreign STCW Certificates

    Quote Originally Posted by Steamer View Post
    This is really creepy, they aren't talking about galley hands, they are aiming at licensed officers. It sounds like they are trying to eliminate the requirement that all officers are US citizens. The proposal starts out with putting foreign officers on US ships in the GOM oil patch but paragraph C is very very chilling.

    (C) Any other vessel if the Secretary
    determines, after an investigation, that
    qualified seamen who are citizens of the
    United States are not available.



    Who among us is "available" to work onboard for 12 months straight for $3000 per month and no benefits? When we say no to that form of indentured servitude, we are then defined as "not available" and can be replaced with a Romanian or some other STCW White List Third Worlder with a certificate newly recognized by the USCG.

    I wonder who bought and paid for this bit of corporate butchery? And more to the point, what part of our "homeland" is this supposed to secure?
    Only one thing to do here!
    ...COMMENT....COMMENT....COMMENT...and....COMMENT

    unless we all do the battle will be lost forever!
    Last edited by c.captain; September 30th, 2010 at 10:48 AM.
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    Default Re: Recognition of Foreign STCW Certificates

    Quote Originally Posted by c.captain View Post
    Only one to do here!
    ...COMMENT....COMMENT....COMMENT...and....COMMENT

    unless we all do the battle will be lost forever!
    Not sure if you want some to comment on this. It may be contrary to your drum beat.
    "Captain standard operating procedure for decision making is to do what feels right to you at the time, and then to give logical sounding justifications for what you were already going to do anyway" -
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    Default Re: Recognition of Foreign STCW Certificates

    Hallo America, welcome to the rest of the world... I live in Germany and we had this development already a few years ago. Not too long ago the captain and a certain number of officers and even crew had to be German national on German flagged ships. Then the companies started to flag out to such an extent that the German flag almost disappeared from the oceans and was only used for local vessels. So this rule weakened up to the necessity of only a German captain, certain officers from EU countries and everybody else from wherever. They also imposed that rule about proving that there are no Germans available, but this never worked out. In fact you could download a paper from the website of the job agency saying that there are no officers/captains/engineers registered as unemployed with them and that would do as proof. Then 2 years ago things got worse. Now there are no more Germans necessary on German flagged ships. Captain can be from any EU country, provided he speaks enough German to visit an 5 days course about German national law (the exam at the end of th course is in English...). The result is clear. Our ships are now full of Romanian, Polish, Bulgarian officers and captains.

    This is one side of the medal. The other side is that there are ships that need specialist crew which are not available in USA. E.g. big tall ships. Many of them are flagged out, because it is impossible to man them with an all-US crew. With only a handful countries actively training civil tall ship officers (e.g. Russia, Ukraine, Poland, Netherlands) the crewing must be global to provide safety on the vessels. The new rule could mean that more of such ships could operate under US flag again, rather than flying something colourful from the Caribbean.

    B.
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    Default Re: Recognition of Foreign STCW Certificates

    how do we stop this? I already have to many people on my boat that dont speak english. And now the Gov wants to take my Captains chair
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    Default Re: Recognition of Foreign STCW Certificates

    "The other side is that there are ships that need specialist crew which are not available in USA. E.g. big tall ships."

    Oh yeah, that'll work just great. There would be jobs for about 12 US licensed officers working for less than minimum wage supervising a bunch of volunteers for a few months a year.
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    Default Re: Recognition of Foreign STCW Certificates

    "how do we stop this?"

    You buy a Congressman or two and a couple of USCG admirals just like the people who wrote the proposed rule changes.

    They have finally found a way to get around the Jones Act battles. After all, they could care less about the flag of the ship so long as they don't have to pay wages and benefits to the Americans who buy their products and pay the taxes that get handed back to them as bailouts and tax relief.
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    Default Re: Recognition of Foreign STCW Certificates

    Regulation I/10 of the International Convention on Standards of Training, Certification and Watchkeeping for Seafarers, 1978, as amended, (STCW) requires Parties to the Convention to establish procedures to recognize STCW certificates issued by or under the authority of another Party.
    I am as concerned as everyone about the consequences. But READ what the notice says. From my conversations with the CG they are no happier about this than we are. They are bound to do this because we are part of IMO. It does not totally mean the end of the world, but it is not just USA that has to comply. And it does not automatically mean that every other country will automatically be recognized. In order to be accepted the CG will have to be assured that the standards are in fact equal (or better?) to US Standards. I already know that there are many countries that are every bit as good as US. That does not mean I want them to get MY job. I also know that there are many more that don't make the cut. That is why they have the White, Grey and Black lists.

    The whole Inland fleet at least will stay US Flagged and Manned, due to INS requirements. I wish I could say the same for the GOM, but sadly I do see a great deal of damage coming there. Our biggest hope there is the INS and IRS.

    Post your comments, I will. That way at least we can delay and make those changes as painless as possible, but those changes will still happen.
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    Default Re: Recognition of Foreign STCW Certificates

    In my opinion, "recognized" should mean that if a Romanian master brings a (foreign flag) ship into US waters we should "recognize" his Romanian certificate as valid for that purpose. I don't believe it should mean that he can take my job on an American flag ship.

    Spare us the CG are not any happier than we are nonsense. If the CG didn't see retirement jobs for a few admirals or a place in some politician's bed the whole idea would have been laughed out of existence before anyone had time to type a notice.

    Maybe we should replace the CG leadership with foreign citizens who actually have seafaring experience and knowledge of guarding a coast. The Europeans have been doing a good job of it for centuries and will probably do it better and cheaper than the bunch who are now working to eliminate Americans from the high seas.

    Does no one else see the irony that the the sons and grandsons of the men who fought to keep American ships safe from those who would clear them from the seas are now working so hard to accomplish what their fathers fought and died to prevent?
    Last edited by Steamer; September 30th, 2010 at 10:50 AM.
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