Jumping from heights with Type 1 PFD donned

[Capt. Lee]

I recently conducted some weekly SOLAS training with the crew. The topic was how to inspect a life jacket, properly put one on and entering the water from a height (jumping into the water. The following in the comments I had to offer:
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It is sometimes necessary to jump into the water from a considerable height when abandoning ship. The lifejacket should therefore impart no injury to the wearer, neither should it itself be damaged, on impact with the water. It is usual to jump feet first, with the legs close together and slightly flexed at the knee, mouth closed, one arm across the lifejacket holding it close to the body and the thumb and forefinger of the other hand closing the nostrils after taking a deep breath and before impact with the water. This obviates danger to the head when striking debris in the water, in injury from the lifejacket and shock from cold water forced up the nostrils.


A couple of days after the training one of the electricians came to me and told me that at water survival he was told not to put the life jacket on prior to jumping from a height because it would injure the person wearing the PFD. Also, FYI, the guy is pretty cool, so he isn't just trying to be a douche bag. This was the first time I had thought about it. I do know that you may not want to wear a PFD if you are jumping into water that is on fire. I also know that you are holding tight to the life jacket with your arms crossed with one hand pulling down firmly on the jacket and the other holding you nose, bending your knees slightly, taking a deep breath before impact and keeping your ankles crossed to enter the water and prevent injury. The idea of jumping into the water without the PFD on seemed like the least desirable thing to do given that you have time to put it on before jumping. I am doing some research on this and would like to know if anyone has any input or opinions on this. Thanks in advance.
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[Robert]

I would definitely recommend jumping with it on for two reasons, in spite of the other downsides. First, if for some reason you do become unconscious during the jump you are probably dead without it. Second, I assume you would throw it in the water head of you if you don't wear it and depending on weather conditions, it could be carried away before you get to it.

Just my thoughts.

[anchorman]

You always put it on first, if you have time. If you brake your arm, for whatever reason during the jump, it would be nearly impossible to put one on after the fact.
Also, you didn't mention looking at the horizon, or straight ahead when jumping. A bad habit is looking down which will make you tilt forward as you descend. Not a good thing.

[john]

This is a topcoat of interest to me as well.

Years ago I read an in depth article about a person who jumped from the Tappen Zee bridge in NY and a fireman sitting in his car jumped after her in an attempted rescue (one in retrospect he admitted was dumb).

The article said that some of the people who jumped from the bridge in it's history died, others became paralyzed and some, like the firefighte and his jumper, lived with relatively minor injuries (the firefighter would have died except a mariner at a nearby dock spotted the firefighter and got out their in a boat before the two drowned trying to tread water with broken blames so he did in fact save the girls life, since the mariner claims not to have seen her jump... Just the fireman who followed).

Anyway... The reporter claimed he did extensive research on jumpers and that the bridge height was in the magic 10' buffer zone.... almost all people who jump from structures 10 ft higher die and almost all who jump from structures 10 ft shorter live regardless of the clothes, lifejackets, etc they are wearing.

But I've since googled for the articlemand haven't found t or any other research one the "magic buffer zone".

[john]

I mention topic (not topcoat).... Danm iPhone

[Ea$y Money]

AB here, and all my training has been; if over 15 feet, do not wear the life jacket. I will do some digging and see if I can find a quote.

[cmjeff]

I mention topic (not topcoat).... Danm iPhone

John: That post makes no F'n sense. I love you man but you gotta get off your ass and away from the television, watching those hearings all day would even make Einstein look dumber than Lee.

Lee: You're OK in my book too (sorry about the Einstein thing man) but F that.... I ain't jumping off a rig without a lifejacket regardless of what your electrician buddy says. But that's just me.

[Jemplayer]

I've been told to not jump with with your hand near your face because of the chance of braking your nose. I've jumped off cliffs at about 40ft with out any problems with water going in my nose, so that's not high on my list of concerns.

In an emergency I would never jump with out my PFD. Just to many thing can go wrong on the way down and when you hit. Bet you chances are real good that if you jump just holding on to your PFD as soon as you hit the water you'll lose it, and good luck catching it if there's any current and it's dark.

[bullyjohn]

I was always told at highest over 14 ft to not have it on but hug it and if in a gumby suit to have arm closest to hull over head and pull down in area by the chin

[cmakin]

I mention topic (not topcoat).... Danm iPhone

Oh, that isn't the ONLY typo . . . .

[seadawg]

these are the guidelines I teach when instructing PST.



ENTERING WATER FROM A HEIGHT WEARING A LIFE JACKET
<TABLE cellPadding=7 width="90%"><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top width="20%"></TD><TD vAlign=top width="80%">10-20. Make sure that your jacket is well secured. If it is not well secured, you could hurt your head when you jump. Then get down to a height of less than 30 feet if you can. Below 15 feet is ideal. If you jump from higher than 30 feet, you can hurt yourself (this depends on the height from which you jump and the angle at which your body hits the water). If worn, remove dentures, eyeglasses, or contact lenses. Also remove any sharp objects from your pockets. Get in the jump position (see Figure 10-3) and do the following:

• Stand on the gunwale and check the water for debris.
• Check to see if the life jacket is tied and all the straps are secured.
• Hold your nose and cover your mouth with your left hand.
• Cross over your left hand with your right hand and hold the life jacket collar securely.
• Hold your elbows into your side as much as possible.
• Keep head and eyes straight ahead. Do not look down.
• Take one step out using either foot.
• Bring your trailing leg up behind your leading leg so that they cross at the ankles. This will protect you if you should land on any floating debris.

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Figure 10-3. Jumping in Water

<TABLE cellPadding=7 width="90%"><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top width="20%"></TD><TD vAlign=top width="80%">10-21. Get away from the ship once you are in the water. Swim as slowly as possible toward the survival craft. DO NOT swim or thrash about any more than you need to because of the following:

• You will lose your body heat.
• You will lose your strength. You will need all your strength to pull yourself up and into the survival craft.
• You should let your life jacket support you in the face-up position.

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[Ea$y Money]

How about the ol' SOLAS training manual..... chapter 3.2; The maximum recommended jumping height when wearing a lifejacket is.... drum roll please.... 4.5 meters. AB's rule!

[anchorman]

How about the ol' SOLAS training manual..... chapter 3.2; The maximum recommended jumping height when wearing a lifejacket is.... drum roll please.... 4.5 meters. AB's rule!

Not many people will take the recommendation on MODUs regardless.

[Capt. Lee]

How about the ol' SOLAS training manual..... chapter 3.2; The maximum recommended jumping height when wearing a lifejacket is.... drum roll please.... 4.5 meters. AB's rule!

Actually it states in our Manual that 4.5 meters is the minimum height to jump and not injure the person or damage the life jacket. It does not states anywhere a maximum height.

[anchorman]

Actually it states in our Manual that 4.5 meters is the minimum height to jump and not injure the person or damage the life jacket. It does not states anywhere a maximum height.

He probably has the 2001 version..

[RkyMtn Paul]

This is an interesting dilemma. If you jump from to high and your PFD isn't secured properly, it would rip your head off. Ok, maybe not so bad. As stated, if you jump w/o it on, you'll wish you had. Having worked in the GOA (Alaska), if you don't have your gumby, it's a moot point. You're dead anyhow. I have seen first hand Navy seals jumping 60' into the water in Chin Hae, Korea, in the winter. Nuts!

[Ea$y Money]

They say the second thing to go on you older fellows is your eye sight. I am attaching the page from the 2009 SOLAS training manual. Sorry I can't blow it up, but it clearly states "
3.2 Leaving the Ship
In all circumstances it is preferable to abandon the ship by survival craft. If this is not possible the next best method is to use an embarkation ladder or a suitable escape rope or fire hose and board the survival craft alongside.

I

Chapter 2.0 ofthis Manual

In the event ofan urgent ship abandonment where persons have to jump clear of the ship, it is vital that the correct actions are taken:
<DIR>• Jump close to the survival craft and board as quickly as possible.
* REMEMBER· the maximum rccommended jumping height when wearing a lifejacket is 4.5 metres."
</DIR>

Respectfully submitted.

Attachment 1129

[anchorman]

They say the second thing to go on you older fellows is your eye sight.

Not only do you think you know everyone's age, you assume that they have the ability to see through the internet to your little book. You also assume too much with that SOLAS training manual - most vessels use a generic printout to meet a requirement, and most are not SOLAS to begin with. That manual is not generated by the IMO, or any type approval facility, and I bet it does not distinguish the 22lb or 35lb buoyant force variety of Type 1 for which this height is based?!

@Lee
Stearn and Mustang do not Know since they do not test them like that, they do not set a height limit, and never heard of that and they make the damn things. Waiting on a call from Coast Guard where the type approval and testing takes place. I'll forward you that response Lee. If there was that much of a danger to jumping in the water with a life jacket, it would say it on the life jacket, or be mentioned on the instructions in each cabin, particularly on MODUs.

[anchorman]

This is an interesting dilemma. If you jump from to high and your PFD isn't secured properly, it would rip your head off. Ok, maybe not so bad. As stated, if you jump w/o it on, you'll wish you had. Having worked in the GOA (Alaska), if you don't have your gumby, it's a moot point. You're dead anyhow. I have seen first hand Navy seals jumping 60' into the water in Chin Hae, Korea, in the winter. Nuts!

60' is pretty high. I remember doing the 10 meter high dive (30') when I was a little kid with flotation and booties on.

[seadawg]

doubt you will get a definative "black & white" answer in this CYA world we live in..even when it involves such a vital subject??