Noble Cuts Frontier Pay?

[tengineer]

Rumor has it Noble has told the newly acquired Frontier drillship people they will be getting a pay cut. Any truth to that and if so from how many $ to how many $?
If true it going to be hard to keep or hire experienced hands.

[anchorman]

Rumor has it Noble has told the newly acquired Frontier drillship people they will be getting a pay cut. Any truth to that and if so from how many $ to how many $?
If true it going to be hard to keep or hire experienced hands.

It has always been hard for Noble to keep experienced hands because of pay - they went as far as offering me a Master position on a drill ship last year - not hardly the "experienced hands" that you mentioned since I've never worked on a drill ship in my life. A master at Noble makes $135,000/year stateside, $153,000 overseas + $16,000 retention if it was approved for the fiscal year, or pretty close to it. Frontier master was $185,000 +, but they had a raise since I looked at the payscale sheet in the Houston office back in February. You can do the math between the two. All Frontier employees became Noble employees at closing. Noble also handles training pay differently. $150/day all personnel/ratings. At Frontier you got your dayrate, which was your base yearly divided by 365 added to salary.

[tengineer]

I knew Noble was a bunch of cheap skates but buying a company and immediately cutting pay? The ones that stayed because they couldn't go anywhere else will not likely go the extra mile for the new bosses. Rigzone's salary survey shows US oil industry wages to be nearer the bottom than the top in the world already; not a good thing as talent follows the money.
I've never understood why companies pinch pennies when it comes to training, especially in the drilling end. It's counterproductive and shortsighted. Transocean, I am told, recently cut their training pay by 50%. During the Horizon joint investigation hearings some questions were asked about training, vendor schools, equipment schools etc. It didn't look good when one of the guys said the company cut out the 'hands on' outside schools and replaced them with an in house computer program.
Though I don't doubt you could have handled the Noble job you were probably wise not to start at the bottom of the bottom.

[anchorman]

I knew Noble was a bunch of cheap skates but buying a company and immediately cutting pay? The ones that stayed because they couldn't go anywhere else will not likely go the extra mile for the new bosses. Rigzone's salary survey shows US oil industry wages to be nearer the bottom than the top in the world already; not a good thing as talent follows the money.
I've never understood why companies pinch pennies when it comes to training, especially in the drilling end. It's counterproductive and shortsighted. Transocean, I am told, recently cut their training pay by 50%. During the Horizon joint investigation hearings some questions were asked about training, vendor schools, equipment schools etc. It didn't look good when one of the guys said the company cut out the 'hands on' outside schools and replaced them with an in house computer program.
Though I don't doubt you could have handled the Noble job you were probably wise not to start at the bottom of the bottom.

I believe Noble is paying the difference till the end of the year. So, it might not be immediate. The new employee packets were just delivered a few days ago. I have worked with Shell on the drilling side for 15 years now, and know most of the upper management and foreman. Shell is a demanding client, and if there is problems with keeping personnel, I'm sure Shell will have issues after giving Noble such a backlog of lucrative contracts.

[Orniphobe]

I believe Noble is paying the difference till the end of the year.

That's correct... but it will be one check at the end of the year. It will cover the difference for two hitches (four months) but you have to stay until New Year's to get it. Frontier's benefits including health insurance continues until the end of the year. We haven't seen what Noble benefits are yet.

I didn't expect them to come up to Frontier's pay, but I'm disappointed they didn't budge at all. Frontier had some really good people that will be hard to retain.

[anchorman]

Frontier had some really good people that will be hard to retain.

I think you're right. The Rigzone server is down......maybe crashed from job search traffic?!

[c.captain]

Not only a 20+% paycut but also many policies which are downright disrespectul to their offshore employees. You are on your own to get to the heliport when working in the Gulf (you get a max of $400 for travel expenses), no internet for the rig hands except for two or three workstations, only a couple of telephones so you can imagine the lines waiting to use a phone or computer and the most ridiculous of all, no beards (even goatees)! I can understand that last one for safety reasons (ie in a high H2S well) but their explanation was that it was because their policy had always been that since the 1920's or something and they had no intention of changing. Some antiquated tradition that they had no intention of changing to the 21st century drilling business.

To me all put together and you have a company who's policy is "our way or the highway"

btw, hey Orniphobe!

[Capt. Lee]

It is really messed up. I know a lot of people that went over there from good companies because of the pay and the opportunity to be on a new drillship. If they had known that Noble was going to buy them out I do not think they would have went. It has got to be expensive for Noble to hire people. I always see their ads. It seems like they are constantly hiring and processing people. If they raised their rates a little they might be able to retain some folks. They really should be paying for travel, too. When I hear stories like this it makes me feel fortunate to be with a company that takes care of these things. Good Luck to all the guys jumping ship over there. I don't blame you.

[cmakin]

Not only a 20+% paycut but also many policies which are downright disrespectul to their offshore employees. You are on your own to get to the heliport when working in the Gulf (you get a max of $400 for travel expenses), no internet for the rig hands except for two or three workstations, only a couple of telephones so you can imagine the lines waiting to use a phone or computer and the most ridiculous of all, no beards (even goatees)! I can understand that last one for safety reasons (ie in a high H2S well) but their explanation was that it was because their policy had always been that since the 1920's or something and they had no intention of changing. Some antiquated tradition that they had no intention of changing to the 21st century drilling business.

To me all put together and you have a company who's policy is "our way or the highway"

btw, hey Orniphobe!

No internet? Oh, the evil bastards. Can daily flogging be far behind? Only a couple of phones? Again, oh, my. Bread and water next on the menu, I am sure. I have had to shave my mustache off to go offshore in Mexico. I do know that beards interfere with respirators, and it is very common to have to be free of facial hair, not just offshore, but also working in refineries and other petrochemical work places.

But really, how did we survive before we had internet and telephones offshore, or at sea? I remember going to sea and the only time I ever got to call home was when we made port. Even then, it was to expensive to do much more than say "Hi". When I go offshore now, I see folks calling their house every night, and staying on the phone for hours. It certainly does not help morale to have daily contact, from what I have seen.

And Nobel is being "downright disrespectful"?

Oh, and only $400 bucks to get to the dispatch location? Each way, I bet. If you are paying more than that to get anywhere in the Gulf, you must be taking a limo.

I also bet they are only putting out meals four times a day, too. Or making folks work 12 hour shifts. Why, that is slavery, I tell you.

[tengineer]

The companies with the better compensation package and benefits attract a wider pool of applicants and can pick from the best available talent. It's as true in the maritime industry as in any other.
It appears Noble is simply not competitive. The lack of communication for workers will only increase turnover. Companies long ago found that employee retention improved with internet service and the VOIP phone capabilities. The companies that provide the travel, internet etc., are certainly not going bankrupt doing so and they don't do these things just to be nice guys.
As anchorman said. The better oil companies are demanding top talent. Shell may end up having to insist Noble do whatever it takes to get the talent or lose the contract.
Of course Noble could always partner up with BP, they'd make a nice pair.

[Capt. Lee]

No internet? Oh, the evil bastards. Can daily flogging be far behind? Only a couple of phones? Again, oh, my. Bread and water next on the menu, I am sure. I have had to shave my mustache off to go offshore in Mexico. I do know that beards interfere with respirators, and it is very common to have to be free of facial hair, not just offshore, but also working in refineries and other petrochemical work places.

But really, how did we survive before we had internet and telephones offshore, or at sea? I remember going to sea and the only time I ever got to call home was when we made port. Even then, it was to expensive to do much more than say "Hi". When I go offshore now, I see folks calling their house every night, and staying on the phone for hours. It certainly does not help morale to have daily contact, from what I have seen.

And Nobel is being "downright disrespectful"?

Oh, and only $400 bucks to get to the dispatch location? Each way, I bet. If you are paying more than that to get anywhere in the Gulf, you must be taking a limo.

I also bet they are only putting out meals four times a day, too. Or making folks work 12 hour shifts. Why, that is slavery, I tell you.

I think it is funny how you put this. I can tell you exactly how it was before the internet. It Sucked!!! Damn collect calls on the sideband through WLO Mobile, VHF collect if you were in close enough or snail mail (Actually writing a letter). Having to call the bank to make sure my check deposited so I could mail off my bills. Even worse, having to walk a mile to the closest pay phone just to have to wait in line and get drained by mosquitoes! Come one CMAKIN...Those days have got to be over. It does sound funny to hear a grown man almost to tears over it, but I can not imagine having to live without these little pleasures. I can pay all my bills in about 20 minutes. I can send my wife an e-mail as much as I want. I can keep in touch with family and friends. I am not much of a talker, but if I wanted I could call home everyday. These things are not a requirement for employment, but it sure as hell means a lot. If the Captain walks in and tells me to order a watchimacallit, I can get online and find the best one at the best price. There are unlimited business applications for it. If I were applying for a job and all things equal, but one offered internet and the other did not. I can tell you which one myself and most folks would choose. I have been on a vessel with internet capabilities for 9 years now and I can not imagine going back to how it was in the past.

[anchorman]

I think it is funny how you put this. I can tell you exactly how it was before the internet. It Sucked!!! Damn collect calls on the sideband through WLO Mobile, VHF collect if you were in close enough or snail mail (Actually writing a letter). Having to call the bank to make sure my check deposited so I could mail off my bills. Even worse, having to walk a mile to the closest pay phone just to have to wait in line and get drained by mosquitoes! Come one CMAKIN...Those days have got to be over. It does sound funny to hear a grown man almost to tears over it, but I can not imagine having to live without these little pleasures. I can pay all my bills in about 20 minutes. I can send my wife an e-mail as much as I want. I can keep in touch with family and friends. I am not much of a talker, but if I wanted I could call home everyday. These things are not a requirement for employment, but it sure as hell means a lot. If the Captain walks in and tells me to order a watchimacallit, I can get online and find the best one at the best price. There are unlimited business applications for it. If I were applying for a job and all things equal, but one offered internet and the other did not. I can tell you which one myself and most folks would choose. I have been on a vessel with internet capabilities for 9 years now and I can not imagine going back to how it was in the past.

Every Noble rig I've been on has internet. The Bully rigs will have internet provided by Shell, the client. Just like the one I'm using now. That includes phones.

[c.captain]

No internet? Oh, the evil bastards. Can daily flogging be far behind? Only a couple of phones? Again, oh, my. Bread and water next on the menu, I am sure. I have had to shave my mustache off to go offshore in Mexico. I do know that beards interfere with respirators, and it is very common to have to be free of facial hair, not just offshore, but also working in refineries and other petrochemical work places.

But really, how did we survive before we had internet and telephones offshore, or at sea? I remember going to sea and the only time I ever got to call home was when we made port. Even then, it was to expensive to do much more than say "Hi". When I go offshore now, I see folks calling their house every night, and staying on the phone for hours. It certainly does not help morale to have daily contact, from what I have seen.

And Nobel is being "downright disrespectful"?

Oh, and only $400 bucks to get to the dispatch location? Each way, I bet. If you are paying more than that to get anywhere in the Gulf, you must be taking a limo.

I also bet they are only putting out meals four times a day, too. Or making folks work 12 hour shifts. Why, that is slavery, I tell you.

Hey cmakin

Christ! What's the bug up your a__s? You revel in the old days when righands were killed and maimed regularly! You think it's wrong that other deepwater drilling companies pay more, pay longevity bonuses, pay travel days, pay for training plus training days, pay FULL travel, allow their hands free unfiltered access to the internet and ready ability to make phone calls home without waiting in line for an hour, not work 14/14 and YES, wear beards? You must really be unhappy with what your employer offers you and just want everybody else to suffer the same sorry conditions as yourself!

I am sorry to tell you this but we are in the 21st Century and being offered the benefits mentioned are becoming common for rig workers whether you like it or not.

[c.captain]

Every Noble rig I've been on has internet. The Bully rigs will have internet provided by Shell, the client. Just like the one I'm using now. That includes phones.

Shell might have bandwidth a mile wide, but Noble's POLICY is to not give their righands free access to the internet! That has been directly stated by them because someone abused it in the past so as a result, they take a over reactionary approach to deny it to everybody. I believe that they use something called "websense" that blocks out just about any personal use like downloading a picture of a newborn daughter! Hell I can understand adult content filtering but closing it down to "any" personal downloading?

Also, the beard thing was clearly stated by Noble that it is NOT a matter of safety, but that it has been their POLICY for decades because one of the old timey bosses didn't like beards! F, this isn't Disney World we're talking about here!

[anchorman]

Shell might have bandwidth a mile wide, but Noble's POLICY is to not give their righands free access to the internet! That has been directly stated by them because someone abused it in the past so as a result, they take a over reactionary approach to deny it to everybody. I believe that they use something called "websense" that blocks out just about any personal use like downloading a picture of a newborn daughter! Hell I can understand adult content filtering but closing it down to "any" personal downloading?

Also, the beard thing was clearly stated by Noble that it is NOT a matter of safety, but that it has been their POLICY for decades because one of the old timey bosses didn't like beards! F, this isn't Disney World we're talking about here!

Shell will put Caprock, 512k that you will have access to. Noble will put a wireless system as well - filtered, but it will require a credit card and you have to pay for it for personal use in the stateroom areas. I would expect the Bully 1 to be the same as the Danny Atkins and Clyde Boudreaux. There will be connections for Caprock on the bridge and upper level offices (Captain, OIM, Company Man, Driller etc..)

[cmakin]

Hey cmakin

Christ! What's the bug up your a__s? You revel in the old days when righands were killed and maimed regularly! You think it's wrong that other deepwater drilling companies pay more, pay longevity bonuses, pay travel days, pay for training plus training days, pay FULL travel, allow their hands free unfiltered access to the internet and ready ability to make phone calls home without waiting in line for an hour, not work 14/14 and YES, wear beards? You must really be unhappy with what your employer offers you and just want everybody else to suffer the same sorry conditions as yourself!

I am sorry to tell you this but we are in the 21st Century and being offered the benefits mentioned are becoming common for rig workers whether you like it or not.

Sigh. My points are multiple on this one. I don't understand why so many that work offshore these days feel that they are entitled to live the same way they do on land. Or, that the company they work for is obligated to provide services so that they can. And I didn't say that I didn't like it, I just find the whining about not having them to be a little ridiculous. Does the company pay well? Are their benefits decent? I just don't consider having constant contact that important. Now, my only offshore work has been as a Surveyor/Adjuster so most times I am only out for a few days, do my thing and come back in. I have had to spend as much to a month offshore on certain assignments. Somehow I survived by calling home once a week. This was when I would see hands on the phone twice or more each day, every day. Tell me THAT isn't distracting. Now, I did go to sea for 10 years, and back when there was no satellite TV or phone. You know what, we all survived somehow. We all got news from our loved ones ashore if we needed to. We wrote and read letters. The radio operator would put out a bulletin every day with the news stories. Where on earth you think that I revel in the days where rig hands were maimed and killed is a ridiculous conclusion, and certainly nothing I would encourage. As far as "full" travel, I again go back to my point. Getting from anywhere in the Gulf coast area to a dispatch location in the Gulf area shouldn't cost more than 400 bucks each way. I do my own travel expenses and have a pretty good grasp of the costs.

I just found the tone of your post to be just a little preposterous. I mean what's next, the comfy chair? I don't guess hard tack is coming back onto the menu anytime soon. Different companies will have different pay scales. Companies get bought and sold and employees have to deal with that. We all have to deal with changing income or changing employment from time to time. I have to wonder if you are disgruntled Noble employee. You know, they may not pay the best, but they have been working rigs for quite a long time and I doubt that they are going anywhere anytime soon. Maybe there is something to that. If you do work for them and don't like it, get out a pencil and work on that CV. I have had jobs where I didn't like the working conditions, pay, schedule, etc. I looked for work on my time off and got a different job.

[c.captain]

As far as "full" travel, I again go back to my point. Getting from anywhere in the Gulf coast area to a dispatch location in the Gulf area shouldn't cost more than 400 bucks each way. I do my own travel expenses and have a pretty good grasp of the costs.

Mr. cmakin...a total blatant assumption on your part to believe that everyone who works on a rig or supply vessel or whatever lives in driving distance to Houma, Amelia or Fourchon. Some of us actually live in such foreign places as Maine, California, Virginia and Washington State. All rig workers aren't just from the South these days, but Noble still thinks we do or if we don't, thinks that we should. They are totally out of touch with reality! They can afford to get me to Brazil, but they can't afford to get me to NoLa?

Plus the $400 is for the ROUND TRIP not each way!

[cmakin]

Mr. cmakin...a total blatant assumption on your part to believe that everyone who works on a rig or supply vessel or whatever lives in driving distance to Houma, Amelia or Fourchon. Some of us actually live in such foreign places as Maine, California, Virginia and Washington State. All rig workers aren't just from the South these days, but Noble still thinks we do or if we don't, thinks that we should. They are totally out of touch with reality! They can afford to get me to Brazil, but they can't afford to get me to NoLa?

Plus the $400 is for the ROUND TRIP not each way!

It is your choice as to where you live. Me? I have lived on all three coasts chasing jobs. If you can get one that pays all the transportation, good deal. I used to sail for a company that paid NO transportation costs. Not an oil patch company, either. Union job, too. So I moved close to where we sailed from most often. Now, if we were relieved at some other port than the home port, they always flew us back. To the home port.

[Orniphobe]

It is your choice as to where you live. Me? I have lived on all three coasts chasing jobs. If you can get one that pays all the transportation, good deal. I used to sail for a company that paid NO transportation costs. Not an oil patch company, either. Union job, too. So I moved close to where we sailed from most often. Now, if we were relieved at some other port than the home port, they always flew us back. To the home port.

We have crew on the Bully I from Newfoundland (yes, he's American), San Juan, St. Croix, ME, WA, and Southern California. I have no mates or engineers from AL through TX. On my last ship, working in the GOM, I had two mates from AK. Hopefully this is a self correcting problem because I'm not going to be able to keep those people with the current travel policy. Round trip from ME with hotel in NOLA and rental car to Venice I'm guess is $650 on the low end, so from NL or WA it must be double that. (What happens when your relief is snowed in, who pays the for the ticket?). The good news this week is a rumour that Noble will go 28/28 instead of 14/14 soon, which will save a lot of time in the air.

Internet is a must these days. That's the way people do business these days, pay bills, chat with the kids, check their homework, keep up with with your Reserve unit, go to school, and buy plane tickets. It's a must or we won't be able to keep anyone. It's not a right, it's simple supply and demand.

Ohh... Captains and Chiefs lose their business class seats to Singapore. ;( Good thing I booked my next hitch ahead of the closing! What concerns me the most right now though is Frontier had four Captains in the office between Houston, Singapore, and Europe. Noble has none. I hope I have some back up when there's a hurricane or loop current coming, or we need critical safety equipment fixed.

[c.captain]

It is your choice as to where you live. Me? I have lived on all three coasts chasing jobs. If you can get one that pays all the transportation, good deal. I used to sail for a company that paid NO transportation costs. Not an oil patch company, either. Union job, too. So I moved close to where we sailed from most often. Now, if we were relieved at some other port than the home port, they always flew us back. To the home port.

Certainly proves my belief that you have not received much from your employers and want us to have to suck it up just like you. I've worked for my share of cheap assed employers in over 25 years of seafaring and I have often envied those with the cushy high paying jobs, but not once have I wanted those guys to be forced down to my level...rather I have only wanted all the companies in the industry to treat their mariners with respect and provide us with basic benefits for our services to their operations. Blame the companies for not giving enough, not the mariners to having too much!