Drillship Ab's

[Orniphobe]

I sent my Bosn to RFPNW school at MPT in Fort Lauderdale. He came back with all the assessments signed and together with his sea time and Basic Safety Training, he applied to upgrade from Ab-MODU to Ab-Unlimited and get his STCW Certificate. (We need two Ab-MODU while drilling but three Ab-Unlimited while sailing.) NMC came back and said he needed 180 days of 8-hours on the Bridge. I thought he would get everything he needed at the class, but I guess not, and I can't find a class that will sign off the the sea time.<br><br>Drillship Ab's do maintenance on deck for 12 hours. There are two mates on the Bridge, no seamen, so there's no way for them to get that sea time, except in the rare case when we promote one to an unlicensed DPO job.<br><br>About half of our seamen are Ab-unlimited with STCW that they got years ago. We're ok with safe manning for now, but eventually they will move on and we have no way to produce new Unlimited-Ab's. Has anyone else ran into this? Is there a school out there that you use? Where are you getting your Ab's from?<br><br><br><br><br>

[jdcavo]

You can't sign off on the sea time, it's a seprate requirement under STCW, either 2 months as part of an approved trainign program, or 6 months otherwise. We've approved schools to do the assessments but the sea time has to be on a sea-going vessel over 500 GRT. It's also not "regular" sea time, it's performing navigational watchkeeping under the supervision of the Master of OICNW. They may be able to use "old" sea time if they can track down the documentation. At least for some of it.<br><br>James D. Cavo<br>Chief, Mariner Training &amp; Assessment Division<br>USCG National Maritme Center<br>James.D.Cavo@uscg.mil

[tengineer]

"Drillship Ab's do maintenance on deck for 12 hours. "<br><br>" NMC came back and said he needed 180 days of 8-hours on the Bridge. There are two mates on the Bridge, no seamen, so there's no way for
them to get that sea time."<br><br>"We're ok with safe manning for now, but eventually they will move on and we have no way to produce new Unlimited-Ab's."<br><br><br> Excuse me while I rant. <br>AB's have to work 12 hours on deck and they are not allowed on the bridge? Who made this policy, the company or someone already on the bridge? Regardless of who made the decision it is obvious management does not want anyone to progress to AB Ultd. Therefore, should they need to satisfy safe manning requirements they need to hire properly trained and qualified AB unlimiteds and not expect some school to "sign off" people who are not allowed on the bridge in a learning situation.<br> It is absolutely true that eventually you will have no way to produce unlimited ABs in the future if your policy doesn't change. Park your MODU, hire AB Untlds or change your 'training' program. <br>

[Capt Brian]

teng,<br>Wonderfully said! Someone in the bridge must have the holier than thou attitude, not willing to help someone out to better themselves in the chosen career. Amazing....

[bob]

Mr. Cavo:<br><br>As a new AB-Special<STRONG> without </STRONG>the RFPNW is was a bit shocked to realize I was not a "real" AB till I completed the RFPNW requirments. <br><br>I read NMC Policy 14-02 and see that the vessel tonnage requirments include the following,<br>"...<font size=3>2. Reference (a) requires all ratings forming part of a navigational watch on a seagoing ship of </font><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: "luxi-sans-1"; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA]500 gross tonnage (GT) or more to be duly certified to perform such duties..."<br><br>In the Policy Letter vessel size is described as, "...500 gross tonnage (GT). <br><br>Does that mean greater than 200 GRT? In other words 500 GT is equivalant to how many GRT? <br><br>Then later I read in the Policy letter, "... <span style="font-family: Times New Roman;]All steering and helm assessments must occur on a vessel of at least 100 GRT or a full mission ship simulator programmed to realistically simulate the hydrodynamic properties of vessels of at least 200 GRT (500 GT), equipped with a rudder order indicator, a rudder angle indicator........"<br><br>Mr Cavo, would you clarify the vessel GRT or GT requirments that will satisfy my ship board assessment. The last thing I want to do is hire on a boat as an OS iexpecting to complete my RFPNW assessment then later have it rejected cause the boat wasnt big enough.<br><br>Thanks for your help on this,<br>Bob<br></span></span>

[jdcavo]

<P>"500 Gross Tonnage" is simply stating verbatim the title of the section of STCW applicable to RFPNW. Whenever used in the STCW itself, "gross tonnage" refers to ITC tons. The Coast Guard policy documents on RFPNW are specific as to whch tonnage scheme is used, gross regesitered tons (GRT) or international tonnage convention (ITC). <span style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline]<EM>Generally</EM></span>, 200 GRT = 500 ITC (except when it doesn't, e.g. tugs). The RFPNW assessments need to be on vessels of at least 100 GRT with the equipment noted ion the policy letter. </P>
<P>Also, RFPNW is actually something between OS and AB, it takes less sea time for RFPNW than most AB ratings. RFPNW is actually closer to the "Specially Trained Ordinary Seaman." in the past there was confusion about the meaning of "specially trained", it's a little clearer under STCW, it's an OS who holds RFPNW.<br><br>James D. Cavo<br>Chief, Mariner Training &amp; Assessment Division<br>USCG National Maritime Center<br><A href="mailto:James.D.Cavo@uscg.mil]James.D.Cavo@uscg.mil</A> </P>

[Orniphobe]

"However, a good argument can be made that if the AB never sets foot on the bridge, they don't need RFPNW..."<br><br>Can someone get a STCW Cert and Ab-Unlimited without RFPNW, as long as they have Basic Safety Training and all the other requirements?<br><br>For tengineer and CaptBrian.<br> There's really nothing for these guys to do on the Bridge. That's industry wide, not this rig. We need certified DPO's up there, all of who are either mates or BCO's. We encourage the Ab's to go to stability school and get BCO. Most of them don't want anything to do with DP. Maintaining a drilling rig, the ballast system, cargo system, all the lifesaving and firefighting (remember we're equipped for 150 people), and landing helicopters is a pretty specialized trade that they're proud of.<br><br><br>

[bob]

Mr. Cavo:<br><br>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt]<span style="FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; mso-bidi-font-family: "luxi-sans-1"]Thank you for clarifying RFPNW for me. I was amazed when I discovered your posts here. It’s a great idea! Please keep up the good work helping make our government accessible......... <br></span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; mso-bidi-font-family: "luxi-sans-1"]<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o> </o></span></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt]<span style="FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt; mso-bidi-font-family: "luxi-sans-1"]And as far as </span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 8.5pt]telling all the unlimited AB lakers they arent real ABs I think Ill let you be the one to do that <br>Bob</span></P>

[jdcavo]

<P>If all you have is Basic Safety Training, you cannot get an STCW certificate, there's nothing to put on the certificate (we don't put BST on the certificates). You need something else like RFPNW, RFPEW, Proficiency in Survival Craft" (Lifeboatman), Medical Care Person In Charge, OICNW, etc. Current BST is a prerequiste to getting an STCW certificate, but it is not noted on the certificate.<br><br>To add to your comment about DPOs and the stability courses, a list of those courses is at: <br><A href="http://www.uscg.mil/nmc/training/modu.pdf]http://www.uscg.mil/nmc/training/modu.pdf</A><br><br>James D. Cavo<br>Chief, Mariner Training &amp; Assessment Division<br>USCG National Maritime Center<br><A href="mailto:James.D.Cavo@uscg.mil]<font color=#3354aa>James.D.Cavo@uscg.mil</font></A> </P>

[Orniphobe]

Mr. Cavo,
From your post above, I understand an Ab can get an STCW Cert with BST and Lifeboatman (and/or Fast rescue boat or tankerman), even if they do not have RFPNW. Is that correct.
When our Ordinaries upgrade to Ab-Special, they get a Z-Card that says Ab/LB, but they never get an STCW Cert, even though they submit their BST and Survival Craft-PIC certificates.
Not sure what the problem is, maybe they're only checking MMD and not STCW on the application. It makes it difficult to convert to Marshall Islands or Vanuatu.

[CaptRob1]

Orniphobe,
Could I get you to send me an e-mail. I'd like to ask you a few question.
My e-mail address is: verretro@bellsouth.net


Thanks


Capt Rob

[CaptRob1]

Orniphobe should have clarified more, it is questions about the drillship side.


Promise, I am not "50" (aka police) haha

[russ.clearo]

I am having the same problem with the 180 day thing. I have the time but the assessor isn't clear on how to write the days. They have the sea time and the assessments. How are the 180 days supposed to be written? Is there an official form? I can't seem to find one.

[Shellback]

I am having the same problem with the 180 day thing. I have the time but the assessor isn't clear on how to write the days. They have the sea time and the assessments. How are the 180 days supposed to be written? Is there an official form? I can't seem to find one.

I had my company write the letter ,verbatim , from the policy letter 14-02..180 days while conducting navigational watch keeping duties while under the direct supervision of the master...Which is what the requirements call for..Put it in their language, then things wont be so confusing when NMC receives the application...

[Capt. Fran]

I am having the same problem with the 180 day thing. I have the time but the assessor isn't clear on how to write the days. They have the sea time and the assessments. How are the 180 days supposed to be written? Is there an official form? I can't seem to find one.

USCG Policy Letter 14-02

"3. Applicants for the STCW certification must provide evidence of:
a. ...six months of approved, seagoing service that includes training and experience associated with navigational watchkeeping functions and involves duties carried out under the direct supervision of the master, officer in charge of the navigational watch or qualified ratings;

4. A day of approved seagoing service for qualification as a RFPNW is an eight-hour day under training carrying out duties associated with navigational watchkeeping functions under the direct supervision of the master, the officer in charge of a navigational watch, or a qualified rating (STCW Regulation II/4).

A qualified rating for training purposes is an able seaman holding an
STCW certificate. The applicant must provide a record showing each day, or four-hour period, when service under training was completed.

The record of sea service must include the name of the vessel, the date(s) of the training, indicate whether it was a ocean or near coastal voyage, and be signed by the master, chief mate, or an officer in charge of the watch who holds a license of second mate or higher.

The signing officer should include his license number.

At least 50% of the service must be performed on a seagoing vessel of at least 200 gross register tons (GRT) (equal to 500 GT).

The other 50% may be performed on seagoing vessels that meet the requirements of reference (b) for qualification as an able seaman.

All steering and helm assessments must be completed on a vessel of at least 100 GRT.

[bob]

And dont forget that the 180 eight hour days requirment means exactly that... 8 hours only...

If youre working 12 hour watches ONLY 8 hours will count twords the RFPNW. You cant use the 12 hour watch = 1 1/2 days thing. i called NMC three times on three diffrent days and got the same info. I also called the Portland, OR REC. Beth confirmed the 8 hour requirment.

Bob

[mike173]

Am I missing something here? I don't have a copy of the STCW code with me, but I know that it states very clearly that the Officer on watch (Mate) cannot serve as lookout during hours of darkness. I work on a DP vessel. Our normal watches consist of a DPO, and Officer of the watch, and at least one lookout. Day and night. The DPO cannot be a lookout (because he has other duties), and the Mate on Watch cannot be at night. So, am I to understand that these drillships operate without lookouts as a matter of company policy? Stating that an AB has nothing to do on the bridge smacks of poor seamanship on the most basic level. Are drillships somehow STCW-exempt, or are they just ignoring it altogether?

[seahawk]

I am running into the same problem I recently went and took STCW courses and Lifeboatman coast guard told me they would give me the lifeboatman but not the stcw without RFPNW. There is a course you can take but still have to get signed off by 2nd mate. Coast Guard told me I can take the course and they will give me the stcw but only valid for a year.

[studbuzzar]

Seahawk

Give me a PM or hit my email. I have the RFPNW training form that was sent to me last month by NMC. I will be glad to email or fax a copy with the instructions. That goes for anyone as well.

Steve
tqhbase@bellsouth.net

[marcelmuise]

The DPO cannot be a lookout (because he has other duties), and the Mate on Watch cannot be at night. So, am I to understand that these drillships operate without lookouts as a matter of company policy?

Mike173... That's an interesting point. When a drilling rig is "on location with the intent to drill" though, the IMO's MODU Code exempts them from the COLREGs. Usually that's when anchors are out, or when transponders are deployed for a DP vessel. There's other Customs and EPA rules that kick in as well. Also the Safe Manning Document doesn't require a mate on watch when on location. Our SMD doesn't require any mates onboard at all or even a Master. Just an OIM, two BCO, and two limited Ab. No STCW required.

I'm not saying it's right, but that's what it says. We try to man the vessel as if it were U/W, but not all companies do that.

Why can't your DPO be the Mate on Watch, and the Ab be the lookout?