Masters oceans 3000 ITC -how to increase to 6,000 ITC ???

[oceanspat]

Anybody know what it takes to increase Masters Oceans 3,000 ITC to 6,000 , what is the process? What Schools do you have attend ? Sea Time ? References,letters ..<br>I've been asked to Run the companies new DSV CV -Dive Support vessel - Its a Singapore Built vessel Singapore Flag , DP 2 cert. Tonnage will be around 4500 to 5000 GRT. I've been sailing on there 2400 GRT OSV/DSV vessels -DP2. Probaly have since March 100 days sea time. My last renewal was done before I switched to this new company..

[Capt. Lee]

<P>It is called a Large OSV program. Your company has to submit for approval to the Coast Guard with a list of competencies to be completed by the individual and then sign by an approved large OSV assessor. Some of the earlier ones were given out with a letter from the company. There is one problem for you though....It is not an OSV. It is a DSV. I do not know of a Large DSV program. So apply for your third mate/second mate AGT, go test. Pass the test. Attend 13-16 weeks of training at the tune of at least 20 grand for the tuition. Then pay for your transportation, food and lodging. Then you will at least have the license to run almost anything. By this time the new DSV will be 5-7 years old...Good Luck! </P>

[oceanspat]

2 problems right away, 1 st the Company is Norweignian based Company in Singapore. 2 nd I'm 56 and most likely this is my last renewal , I renewed last April 08. At one time I had worked for Tidewater,Edison Chouest and Seacor.. and do not plan to work for a US Company after this year. I was hoping that school was not needed. I've had my masters Oceans 1600-3000 ITC since 1988.

[oceanspat]

What is a List of Competencies ? A DSV is in my opinion a OSV housing 60 to 120 persons ,so your Hotel,Resturant and Contruction site. For Last 10 years I've run mostly OSV's that are being used as DP 2 ,Sat Dive vessels(4 years) ROV (jobs Pipeline,cable burial 3 years) and Seismic OBC as cable layer and Data Vessel (2 years)

[todd.harter]

I have been down this route. The USCG can only issue such a license for a US-flagged vessel. You must get an unlimited license. To my knowledge no other flag (including all flags of convenience, which normally take whatever you have for a US license and give you the same endorsement) will recognize this license.

[Capt. Lee]

<P>Our opinion has little to do with how a vessel is classified. I agree with you, though. The new OSV licenses are not even saying a tonnage if you have the 6000 ITC it is just saying Master OSV. Period. If you do not have the 6000 it will state a tonnage restriction ie 1600/3000 ITC OSV. The DSV's your are currently running are most likely being ran on your unrestricted 1600/3000 ITC license. You are more than likely more than qualified. But to run a non OSV with a Master OSV probably will not be legal. The reason I say that is the vessel I am currently on is dual classed on the COI.....OSV and Industrial Vessel 5922ITC. The way I undestand the CFR if the vessel is being used as an industrial vessel you would have to have unlimited license personnel onboard to cover the COI requirements. You go back to OSV then the Master OSV license would cover it. Once Mr. Cavo sees this he may be able to explain it better. Now the competencies is basically a training booklet similar to a TOAR (Towing Officer's Assessment Record) or the OMSA Mate/Master training booklet where you demonstrate to an individual that is a qualified assesor that you indeed proved that you successfully complete task XYZ. For example you participated and conducted a man overboard Drill. That is an actually sign off. Ridiculous I know, but it fulfills the requirement. The Large OSV training program consists of two 28 day training hitches and then an additional 28 day hitch where all the competencies have to be completed. 84 days total to get the OSV endorsement.</P>

[oceanspat]

These are not under USCG But IMO ,OSV under Singaporean Flag, Singapore License only state your National License has to be valid and only look at Tonnage. Flag State look more at , if DP 2 ,you have DP Log Books and Cerfifications unlimited DP. When your contracted to most Oil Companies they have submit a CV and References, When ABS check Masters Certs most(99 %) only look at Masters/Oceans . My reliefs are from numerous east block or Asian - some are competent most not, as boat handling they are marginal ,but were I see a Huge differences is on DP competencies. I see most Non USCG Captains are unlimited Masters that have left Deep Sea ships. They might have 6 month of DP but very little Manual Boat Handling and limited OSV or AHTS let alone or Anchor Handling.

[Capt. Lee]

Your DP log book has little to do with the tonnage of the vessel. I do not know much about flag state or foreign license, but the above is the large OSV requirement you asked about. 84 days total training, with the last 28 days all the assessments are to be completed. Then turn the book into the Coast Guard and that's a wrap. The companies I know of that have an approved Large OSV training Program are Chouest, Tidewater, Otto Candies, HOS, and Guidry Brothers. <br><br>The way you explain it Singapore may give you the license if you were to get the 6000, but it isn't even saying tonnage on it anymore it is simply saying MASTER OSV either upon Oceans or Near Coastal. STCW is the same thing Master limited to service on Motor propelled offshore supply vessels. An OSV by Definition as of today is limited to 6000 tons ITC. Believe me the ABS/LLoyds/ Coast Guard or who ever is looking at the tonnage limitations on a license in direct correlation with the tonnage of a vessel. Especially if they are signing off they checked it. Master Oceans comes in many different sizes. 50/100/500/1600.<br><br>Anyway I hope some of this information helped you.

[oceanspat]

Capt. Lee , Thanks for that , I have a pretty good Idea on what I'll do. After 28 years in the oil n gas Business , we are finally getting some nice new equipment,but the down side I see is they are over building again. Over supply is starting to show in different areas. I have more work than I can deal with,with being the longest in business and DP experience , I get hit up as a training vessel for all the paper coming in. After all the Time with US companies and how I was dumped on-This new out fit lured me away from Seacor, but twice the day rate as some companies. If the Financials and Mortgage meltdown hadn't delayed my early retirement I would not be considering the DSV larger vessel,pay and a 5 year contract in Australia. Thanks again , P J Gallagher

[todd.harter]

This I know. 6000 ton limits, large OSV licenses, vessel specific licenses, etc. exist nowhere but in the US Gulf of Mexico. On any foreign flag vessel the license would be restricted to 3000 tons. I hold US, Vanuatu, and Panama licenses (endorsements), and work on a vessel just over 6000 GT ITC. We have checked this out extensively.

[oceanspat]

Todd Harter, I received 2 emails back from USCG REC in SFO and 1 from NUC in Virginia- but neither said anything about being restricted to GOM. I made sure that they understand that I work Foreign -Singapore Flag-Singapore Flag -like your Marshall Island, Bahamas,Vanautu, give you whats on your National License. I'll send your comments off today ,I heard about Vessel specific years ago when with Chouest,but there was not restriction to GOM only. Thanks for info

[tengineer]

"The new OSV licenses are not even saying a tonnage if you have the 6000 ITC it is just saying Master OSV"s <br><br> So does this mean someone with an OSV license could operate any size vessel as long as the USCG gives the vessel a OSV COI or, are OSVs only 6000t or less? If so that raises a whole bunch of questions.

[Capt. Lee]

<P>That is exactly what it means. The definition of an OSV is limited at the moment to 6000 tons ITC though. They are still issuing OSV licenses with a tonnage limitation, but if there is not limitation stated it is understood that the limitation is 6000 ITC by definition.</P>

[tengineer]

Whew, 6000 USCGt is cool. I had visions of something the size of a VLCC being an OSV since over the years I've seen them get bigger and bigger.

[captmike]

You can bet there is action being taken by larger boat companies to try to remove the 6000 ton ITC limit imposed on OSV's per the CFR's.

[guest-]

Hey Todd i was just reading the comments and seen your name..this is Bubby just wanted to say hello..havent heard from you in awhile.

[guest-]

It has been a while since this was up on the top of the list but I think pertinent to answer.

The vessel class OSV exists only in 46CFR subchapter L and thus OSV licenses are only applicable on US flagged vessels. For any other flagged vessel, its manning requirement will be under that flag state's rules so in your case Singapore. Also there is no recognition in the STCW for specialized licenses like OSVs so again it is up to Singapore to decide what license you must hold on that particular vessel. If they hold to both SOLAS and the STCW, then you will need an unlimited tonnage license to be an officer on there. Have you inquired with the flag state?

As an unlimited tonnage master, I will withhold my opinions on what I think of 6000grt large OSV licenses!

[guest-]

I also want to add that the port state also gets a say in the licenses it will accept for a vessel operating in their waters irrespective of the flag it flies. While I have not heard of a US flag large OSV going overseas to work, it is very possible that the port state authority would insist that the officers holding 3000grt licenses w/ large OSV endorsements be replaced with unlimited tonnage officers.

Any vessel working in foreign trade is subject to SOLAS regs and under SOLAS, offshore vessels are considered cargo vessels for applying the rules, but it would be purely up to how tough the port state wanted to be. You can bet your boots that Norway or the UK wouldn't accept someone with one of those tickets, but West Africa mostly likely would. I also doubt Mexico or Brazil would accept them either but I may be wrong.

[oceanspat]

The Reason Company was pushing for the License is lack of Experienced DP Captains that are experienced with Saturation Diving. The Industry has had Tonnage increased on all types-AHTS ,OSVs, DSVs, CV , RSV They found Deepsea tickets holders have had an experience level problems -working with customers onboard ,PAX , Hotel/Rest., I'm sure if Industry stays at these tonnages their will be more DPO Captains and Mates. I'm getting out soon enough, I have no need to stay in another down turn in the oil n gas Industry,, 28 years ,I've made my money ,,now its just trying to save my investments..Good Luck all

[guest-]

I have no idea as to what all that gibberish is suppose to mean but this an academy trained unlimited master with experience on just about anything that floats and needs a license to man it including many workboats. I came to the GoM in 2006 as a 2nd mate after having been a master for the past 8 years and sucked it enough to earn my DPO certificate. Now I am a master again so don't tell me that these offshore companies cannot find people out there who haven't been "born and bred" in the oil patch.

Given incentives and opportunity I am sure there are plenty more like me who would be more than happy to leave the 75 to 120 days on life for 28on/28off. The vessels are getting larger and more sophisticated all the time and should be operated as ships instead of workboats. The single biggest reason that these vessel companies who are all part of the LaFourche Mafia don't want professional unlimited mariners is that they know we have educations and will not be sheep like their "good ole boy" mariners whom they thoroughly control and subjugate to their will. 6000tons Large OSV endorsements do nothing but maintain the status quo at our expense.