Upgrading to 1AE

[NewEngr]

With the new automatic upgrading from 3AE to 2AE and 1AE to CE, what is the CG's policy on time required to 1AE? More specifically, what if you have the 360 days required to upgrade - while holding a 2AE license - but only 45 days as 2AE, and the other 315 as 3AE?

Also, as the NMC took six months to process and approve my application to upgrade to 2AE, I continued to sail as 3AE while they were processing the paperwork. The 360 days required to upgrade to 2AE was completed when I mailed the application to them. Is this in-between time "lost" because I did not have the 2AE license in my hands? Or do they accept it towards upgrading to 1AE.

Sorry if this is confusing, but I tried to explain it as best as possible. I haven't called the NMC yet so I was hoping somebody here could help. Trying to get this done before they institute the new STCW BS.

[Diesel]

Feel your pain, trying to do the same thing on the deck side.

[Jeffrox]

First off, there 365 days in a year, leap years excepted,not 360. So you actually need 320 days more as 2AE, not 315.

From 46CFR:
§ 11.512 Service requirements for first assistant engineer of steam and/or motor vessels.

The minimum service required to qualify an applicant for endorsement as first assistant engineer of steam and/or motor vessels is one year of service as an assistant engineer, while holding a license or MMC endorsement as second assistant engineer.

[tengineer]

You got to hold the 2nd for a year to get your 1st. Of course if you do 12hr days you can get 1.5 credit if on a two watch system and it's stated in your sea time letter. When you get your 1st you have to do time AS 1st on a vessel REQUIRING a 1st to get your Chief, I think it's 180 days. It's a good rule though not strictly enforced unfortunately.

[New3M]

First off, there 365 days in a year, leap years excepted,not 360. So you actually need 320 days more as 2AE, not 315.

No you don't. The Coast Guard defines a "year" as 360 days.

From 46 CFR 10.104: 'Year' means 360 days, for the purpose of complying with the service requirements of this part.

[Jeffrox]

WOW!! I don't remember ever reading that before; I guess it has to be 360 because it also reads that a month is only 30 days.
Damn the US Govt. and CG are powerful, they can actully control the Earth! I wish the Navy had used this standard, I could have gotten out 100 days earlier

[New3M]

Yea I had to look it up to see if it was 360 or 365 because if it was 365, those 5 days were going to take me on another month long trip that I was trying to avoid!

[seadog!]

It may only be 360 days, but I'm real sure those are SERVICE days, as in sea service, as in on a boat. They don't mean calendar days.

Better call NMC.

[New3M]

What else would it mean? 360 days of seatime...or am I missing something?

[tengineer]

Sea time used to be time underway and I think it's still in the regulations somewhere. The USCG at one point apparently thought that experience only counted when you were actually going from point A to point B. I guess they figured tied to the dock wasn't quite the same. They further decided that going from point A to B should be different if you were going along a coast or across an ocean. That difference has been largely ignored over the years. Routinely companies give sea time letters based on the number of days you were paid not where you went, if anywhere, though that is not what the regulations ask for. Therefore there are now unlimited masters and chiefs who've never sailed over 1000 miles in one direction in their lives. Some of the drillship and Gulf of Mexico "captains" and "chiefs" come to mind.

[Steamer]

Therefore there are now unlimited masters and chiefs who've never sailed over 1000 miles in one direction in their lives.

I've never seen anything in the regs that says masters or engineers had to sail long distance rhumb lines much less anything about the mileage between ports. They mention 4, 8, or 12 hours making a day but nothing about miles.

Maybe you are confusing the USCG with the MCA and their yacht licenses where you have to go 50 miles and make an overnight trip or something like that.

[injunear]

There are a few caveats regarding the manning of ready reserve ships.

[NewEngr]

I DO know that the CG allows upgrading to 1AE without ever having sailed as 2AE (only 3AE time) as several of my friends have done this. Not sure if that helps anyone, but thought I'd pass it along.

Tomorrow I will call the NMC to get clarification on the 'gray' time period question. Probably a clearer way to put it is the time acquired AFTER the 360 days needed to get 2AE, but BEFORE they issued the new 2AE license. I find it hard to believe they don't count this time for anything.

[New3M]

I was under the impression that you could only count the seatime for your 1 a/e after you got the 2nd...so if you sail 500 days on your 3rd's before upgrading, those 140 days are lost to the wind and they don't count towards your upgrade to 1st.

[tengineer]

There are a few caveats regarding the manning of ready reserve ships.

True and a good job if you live close. Where else can you work on a ship and go home when you finish your watch?

[tengineer]

[quote=Steamer;27916]I've never seen anything in the regs that says masters or engineers had to sail long distance rhumb lines much less anything about the mileage between ports. They mention 4, 8, or 12 hours making a day but nothing about miles.

True, but the regs do say something about "days underway" and if one is underway for days it would stand to reason that miles would accumulate. Of course those regulations were written before the advent of dynamic positioning and have not been updated in regard to "sea time". The regs also haven't been enforced, except selectively, for quite some time. Therefore, the license is not truly indicative of experience at sea 'upon oceans.' [There are lot of people getting sea time tied to docks in Fourchon LA and other places] A new 3rd mate could get a job on a DP drillship or semi, progress all the way to master unlimited with his longest voyage experience consisting of less miles than his helicoptor ride out to the rig/ship. It happens.

Tengineer

[Jeffrox]

I DO know that the CG allows upgrading to 1AE without ever having sailed as 2AE (only 3AE time) as several of my friends have done this. Not sure if that helps anyone, but thought I'd pass it along.

Tomorrow I will call the NMC to get clarification on the 'gray' time period question. Probably a clearer way to put it is the time acquired AFTER the 360 days needed to get 2AE, but BEFORE they issued the new 2AE license. I find it hard to believe they don't count this time for anything.

I don't see any gray area, just black and white
From 46CFR:
§ 11.512 Service requirements for first assistant engineer of steam and/or motor vessels.

The minimum service required to qualify an applicant for endorsement as first assistant engineer of steam and/or motor vessels is one year of service as an assistant engineer, while holding(not while waiting for) a license or MMC endorsement as second assistant engineer. <!-- / message -->