What about Oceans to Inland?

[67mustang]

Hey Folks,

I've lurked for some time... great forum. I've got a question of my own this time.

I haven't been to sea in a while but I've kept my license current. Chief Mate AGT, Master 1600GT, Master of Towing... all OCEANS. I'm STCW compliant with current ARPA, GMDSS and RADAR (unlim) endorsements.

I'm looking at a job that requires Master AGT-Inland, but I don't know if I qualifiy.

I've checked the CFR's for some guidance, but I'm still confused. In the deck officer's structure diagram, the Master AGT-Inland appears to be a parallel license to the 2nd Mate-Oceans... but does it translate both ways? Inland to Oceans and Oceans to Inland?

Would i need to jump through any USCG hoops to get the Master-Inland notation on my license, or am I automatically deemed qualified by virtue of my Oceans license?

[shippedout]

I'm very interested in this as well. Perhaps Doug, rjbpilot, Capt. Brian or Steve Foster could help with their application experience in this matter?

Capt Anonymous has mentioned this before. It clearly states in the Marine safety Manual:
Pg 133 section C 3

Master 1600 GT Upon Oceans or Near Coastal Waters To Master Any GT Upon Inland Waters. Mariners holding a license as Master 1600 GT Oceans or Near Coastal may apply for a Master Any GT Inland license utilizing 46 CFR 10.435. A tonnage limitation will be placed on the Inland license as per 46 CFR 10.402(b) and (c). Mariners may remove the tonnage limitation on the Inland license by serving one year on vessels over 1600 GT.
Tonnage Limitation

OK, fine. 46 CFR 10.435 goes on about having to have a Pilots License and 360 days on inland waters or GL to meet the requirements, but it also says mate. The over 1600 GRT portion is solved with the tonnage limitation otherwise it would not have even been mentioned or quoted in the manual.

Sec. 10.435 Service requirements for master of inland steam or
motor vessels of any gross tons.

The minimum service required to qualify an applicant for license as
master of inland (excluding the Great Lakes) steam or motor vessels of
any gross tons is:
(a) One year of service as first class pilot (of other than canal
and small lakes routes) or mate of Great Lakes or inland steam or motor
vessels of more than 1,600 gross tons; or,
(b) Two years of service as wheelsman or quartermaster while holding
a mate/first class pilot license.

Section (b) does not mention inland or great lakes waters.

Even without working as a pilot, it should be issued with 1 year as mate
on inland or GL, or 2 years as mate with QM or wheelsman duties NC.




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[rjbpilot]

67 Mustang, I would just submit an application with your all of your documentation. The way the contract evaluators operate these days, you have a 50/50 chance of getting approved. Just send it in.........I would think you'd be ok for the cross over, you possess a Chief Mate AGT, plus the 1600t Master. I am going the other way Inland Master> Second Mate >1600t master, but Doug is doing the reverse as you want to....... How's it working for you Doug?

[JBPA]

I couldn't agree more about the 50/50 chance. Let us know how it works out.

[uberTurtle]

I could be way off base, but with the Chief Mate AGT and Master 1600 GT, both on oceans, you should be covered for inland (except on Western Rivers, etc.).

[stevefoster]

I could be way off base, but with the Chief Mate AGT and Master 1600 GT, both on oceans, you should be covered for inland (except on Western Rivers, etc.).

Oceans covers inland but Western Rivers has to be stated on your license......

§ 10.401 Ocean and near coastal licenses.

(a) Any license issued for service as
master or mate on ocean waters qualifies
the licensee to serve in the same
grade on any waters, subject to the

VerDate Aug<31>2005 09:15 Oct 31, 2008 Jkt 214188 PO 00000 Frm 00154 Fmt 8010 Sfmt 8010 Y:\SGML\214188.XXX 214188

dwashington3 on PRODPC61 with CFR

145

Coast Guard, DHS § 10.402

limitations of the license, without additional
endorsement.
(b) A license issued for service as
master or mate on near coastal waters
qualifies the licensee to serve in the
same grade on near coastal, Great
Lakes, and inland waters, subject to
the limitations of the license, without
additional endorsement.

(c) Near coastal licenses

[cajuntugster]

you are not qualified unless you have 1 year service using your c/m oceans on a vessel over 1600 gt

[dougpine]

....... How's it working for you Doug?

I got approved for Master AGT Inland and am still trying to find time to study for the test. I've got about six months left on the approval so I'd better get busy soon I think.

[rjbpilot]

I got approved for Master AGT Inland and am still trying to find time to study for the test. I've got about six months left on the approval so I'd better get busy soon I think.

And you hold........1600ton Master Oceans, correct? And then you plan to go to Second Mate Oceans? So 67Mustang should be approved with no problem, in theory.

[dougpine]

And you hold........1600ton Master Oceans, correct? And then you plan to go to Second Mate Oceans? So 67Mustang should be approved with no problem, in theory.

Yes, sorry I should have expanded a bit on my last. That's exactly correct. I'm wondering if 67Mustang might just be handed the Master AGT without testing, since he's gone beyond 2/M already. I don't know though. That 50/50 thing just might work in his favor.

[Azimuth]

I just applied for and received my Master AGT Inland (December 09); no testing required. I hold a 1600/3000 Oceans and 2M AGT Oceans.

I wasn't sure if I would get it either so I just applied for the heck of it. Received it in 11 days from application date.

[stevefoster]

I just applied for and received my Master AGT Inland (December 09); no testing required. I hold a 1600/3000 Oceans and 2M AGT Oceans.

I wasn't sure if I would get it either so I just applied for the heck of it. Received it in 11 days from application date.

What documentation did you have to provide in your application to prove qualification for said license, any recency time in the inland towing industry?

[Azimuth]

What documentation did you have to provide in your application to prove qualification for said license, any recency time in the inland towing industry?

I just submitted the application with a sea time & drug test letter from my company (sea time was on 2262 ITC vessel) and a physical since it had been more than 3 years since my last one.

All my sea time has been Oceans and I do not hold a towing endorsement.

I wanted to know if I could get the license or not and I was so confused trying to figure it out I just decided to submit the app & see what happened. The real push for me though was to submit prior to the end of the year so I could still use the old physical form.

So, to answer your question - I don't know what "qualified" me. It was either the 1600/3000, the 2M AGT, or the combination of the 2.

[rjbpilot]

I just submitted the application with a sea time & drug test letter from my company (sea time was on 2262 ITC vessel) and a physical since it had been more than 3 years since my last one.

All my sea time has been Oceans and I do not hold a towing endorsement.

I wanted to know if I could get the license or not and I was so confused trying to figure it out I just decided to submit the app & see what happened. The real push for me though was to submit prior to the end of the year so I could still use the old physical form.

So, to answer your question - I don't know what "qualified" me. It was either the 1600/3000, the 2M AGT, or the combination of the 2.

Since Doug was approved to write for the exam with 1600ton master, and you were given the license while holding Second Mate AGT, we can surmise that the Second Mate AGT is the golden key to the cross over to Inland Master AGT without further examination.

[uberTurtle]

What documentation did you have to provide in your application to prove qualification for said license, any recency time in the inland towing industry?

Who said it had anything to do with towing?

[stevefoster]

Who said it had anything to do with towing?

Just an assumption on my part as I thought that the license was mostly utilized for line towing in inland waters.....am I wrong?

[Jeffrox]

Just an assumption on my part as I thought that the license was mostly utilized for line towing in inland waters.....am I wrong?

Good guess; I figured it was useful for jobs on big-ass ferries or casinos etc.

[stevefoster]

Good guess; I figured it was useful for jobs on big-ass ferries or casinos etc.

I'm sure you are right Jeff. When I worked on an ITB that self-unloaded while anchored out on the Mississippi River adjacent to Ama, La., I would watch the big line tugs with four main engines throwing a rooster tail, pushing 40 or more barges, and wonder what type of license it would take to run one of those. The combined tonnage of all those barges had to be in the tens of thousands of tons and the tugs themselves looked to be a couple of hundred feet long. So if the C.G. is giving away Inland Master AGT licenses I guess I'll reach out and grab one too.