Sailing with improper documentation....

[Clear Solution]

We just had crew change over and I asked everyone who is on the boat at this time to show their documents so I could scan them onto the boat computer. After a bunch of hessitation, bit ing and moaning and argueing< i find this.... no wonder thay didnt want to show there papers.

6 man crew - we run a 3 man crew on each watch

1)master opposite me vessel is over his tonnage,(has a 50gt Inland, vessel is 155gt), radar is expired, no mmd, no twic

2) mine 500gt nc stcw, unl.radar, a/b unlimited, twic, fcc permits
3)engineer my crew mmd no twic
4)engineers relief mmd no twic
5)deckhand opposite crew nothign but a state drivers liscense
6)deckhand my crew master endosement on licsense,radar mmd, twic, (ink still wet on it)

I presented my findings to the owner of the company and he said it was no concern of mine. i replied to him if theyre i my crew they wil have proper documentation. He said I would go before they would.

So I left said company after giveing them my 2 week notice.

1) Anyone kow the legal ramifications of sailing beyond the scope of your papers or without documentation at all?

2) anybody need a wheelhose guy with inside(rivers and ICW, outside towing, anchor handleing and ship assist experiance or know anbody that does?

Danny

[dougpine]

Holy crap. Sounds like you work for D&D on the "Mel Oliver"...

If I found myself in your shoes, I would have called the Coast Guard as soon as the owner fed me his line of bullshit. Glad to hear you're out of there. Good luck with finding work; the industry need people like you who are willing to stand on principle even in tough economic times.

Please consider reporting this to the USCG.

[skinny stick]

let me know what vessel and I will report them,,,,its company's like this that have got to stop. We work hard for our Lic and stay out of trouble to get our TWIC. These type people also drive down our pay rate. I would have walked off that boat right then.

[Capt. Fran]

Danny, I know I shouldn't be as shocked as I was when I read your post, but it definitely made me say "wow" outloud.
Secondly, on behalf of professional mariners (emphasis on professional) everywhere, I want to thank you for doing the right thing here.
I also want to recommend a phone call to the cognizant OCMI.
Not only is that slimy scum of a company hiring workers that are taking jobs from mariners that are actually qualified to be onboard your vessel, if any of those yaywhoose screw up, it makes the rest of us look bad and could lead to the further criminalization of the mariner.

[mike173]

Ten years ago, I might have handled it differently. But today, I would have held up sailing, called the Coast Guard, and made the company fire me. Then I'd have hired a lawyer and seen where it went. I can see one guy slipping through the cracks with an expired document or no TWIC, but this is inexcusable. Actually, it pisses me off.

[Capt_Anonymous]

Ten years ago, I might have handled it differently. But today, I would have held up sailing, called the Coast Guard, and made the company fire me. Then I'd have hired a lawyer and seen where it went. I can see one guy slipping through the cracks with an expired document or no TWIC, but this is inexcusable. Actually, it pisses me off.

Me too. There was a time in my early career where I would have wavered, and perhaps made the wrong decision. But now, fuck that.

And it pisses me off royally that there are still companies out there that will hire people who are willing to sail illegally. I'm more pissed at the assholes who will sail "off the books" than I am at the companies that hire them.

[Mr 100-ton]

call the USCG and report them,,, you just lost a job in a tough time to get a new one,,, if you had sailed as a master with them would you not have been the one in trouble if there was an accident or a boarding by the USCG,,, call them or go down in person and tell them the facts. do not leave anything out and be honest,,,, how much money have you lost for doing the right thing,,,,,,,,you are making it safer for all the other people by reporting this,,, Hello Mel Oliver come in!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Duff]

Report him and the company to the US Coast Guard. We all had to go through the process and pay the fees to maintain our credentials. Whats the point if you just allow people to sail without them. These positions should be filled by qualified professional mariners. After all that is why we all went through the trouble to get liscensed.

[tengineer]

If the USCG hasn't contacted you yet, they probably will.
If they don't then you need to contact the civilian USCG law enforcement guys. They're the USCG equivalent of the Navy's NCIS. THAT will light a fire under some blue butts.

[skinny stick]

the more I read this the more pissed off I get, There are hundreds id not thousands of guys layed off right now and this company wants to hire people that dont care to get there stuff straight. Wish I knew the companys name

[steelbeach]

This post is right on target. Spent years and ?? dollars to get my license as correct as possible and over the last couple of years discover the only way to get work on the large yachts is to show up with an M.C.A. license. Most of the yachts hanging out in U.S. ports are owned by Americans enjoying the American way by flagging offshore and dodging as many taxes as they steal away with.

[Mr 100-ton]

Steelbeach
I agree with you, I spent over 11 years in private yachting and seen more Sh_i do to under-skilled people at the helm,, captain and mates alike,,, I think you can get a 200 ton offshore MCA license with less than 100 days on the water,,, what a joke
or AB need more time than that,, I trust more AB than I do MCA held licenses,,, why the USCG allows them in our ports when overseas they require the USCG 200 ton license to have all the assessments as the 3rd mate license I do not know.

you just have to LOVE MCA,,,,,I was on a boat that ran aground 5 times in one day,,, did over 100,000 dollars worth of damage 2 days after we came out of the yard,,,,,that captain always bragged how he had 20 years of experience running yachts,,,,maybe he should look at paper charts instead of his chart plotter but what do I know,, I was only the chef at the time

[seadawg]

I presented my findings to the owner of the company and he said it was no concern of mine. i replied to him if they're i my crew they will have proper documentation. He said I would go before they would.

1) Anyone know the legal ramifications of sailing beyond the scope of your papers or without documentation at all? Danny

Danny,

**just some "points" to ponder..if "something" catastrophic were to happen and it "somehow" comes out that you were aware that this situation existed and didn't "blow the whistle" then you might find yourself "somehow" in jeopardy??

[rjbpilot]

Danny,

**just some "points" to ponder..if "something" catastrophic were to happen and it "somehow" comes out that you were aware that this situation existed and didn't "blow the whistle" then you might find yourself "somehow" in jeopardy??

You would be in very bad shape. License revoked and or imprisonment and fines. Not good. Not to mention your own safety with some unqualified person in the wheelhouse while you're "sleeping" (yeah, right). You certainly made the right decision. I have friend that was in the same situation and did exactly as you have. Hope you find a better job soon.

Good Luck

[Clear Solution]

Update:

The guys on the boat appearantly got busted going up the street and were kicked off the contract. It sounds as thought the customer had an emergency and needed the boat to get under weigh immediatly and the whole crew was up at the bar. The coasties were waiting for them at the boat. I hope they get what they got coming to them.

As for me, I was fortunate enough to find another job fairly quick and even though I had to take slight cut in pay, Im still happy with the outcome. I didnt have to risk getting black balled, I didnt have to rat out my fellow mariner(reguardless of the situation) and once again I have a paycheck coming in.

My ex employer called on Xmas day wanting to know if Id reconsider coming back to work for them. I spoke my mind and then told him he could have very easily prevented this from happening. He went off on a rant and I hung up on him.

[CaptAndrew]

Just rewards! It was a good outcome, all considered.

Some body musta blew the whistle, Souds like a set up to me.

[dougpine]

Update:

The guys on the boat appearantly got busted going up the street and were kicked off the contract. It sounds as thought the customer had an emergency and needed the boat to get under weigh immediatly and the whole crew was up at the bar. The coasties were waiting for them at the boat. I hope they get what they got coming to them.

As for me, I was fortunate enough to find another job fairly quick and even though I had to take slight cut in pay, Im still happy with the outcome. I didnt have to risk getting black balled, I didnt have to rat out my fellow mariner(reguardless of the situation) and once again I have a paycheck coming in.

My ex employer called on Xmas day wanting to know if Id reconsider coming back to work for them. I spoke my mind and then told him he could have very easily prevented this from happening. He went off on a rant and I hung up on him.

You have my respect, sir, for holding to what is right. In the end, all we go out with is our integrity. Yours is intact. Thank you.

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[TMac]

Sounds a little like HELIX, no MMD, no TWIC, not a US Citizen and came in on a Visitors Visa? They have a job for you.

[seadog!]

What kind of boat is it?
What are the manning requirements?

With only a captain, engineer and deckhand I wonder.

Not every mariner needs to be documented under every situation.
Fishermen for example.

[jolly]

We just had crew change over and I asked everyone who is on the boat at this time to show their documents so I could scan them onto the boat computer. After a bunch of hessitation, bit ing and moaning and argueing< i find this.... no wonder thay didnt want to show there papers.

6 man crew - we run a 3 man crew on each watch

1)master opposite me vessel is over his tonnage,(has a 50gt Inland, vessel is 155gt), radar is expired, no mmd, no twic

2) mine 500gt nc stcw, unl.radar, a/b unlimited, twic, fcc permits
3)engineer my crew mmd no twic
4)engineers relief mmd no twic
5)deckhand opposite crew nothign but a state drivers liscense
6)deckhand my crew master endosement on licsense,radar mmd, twic, (ink still wet on it)

I presented my findings to the owner of the company and he said it was no concern of mine. i replied to him if theyre i my crew they wil have proper documentation. He said I would go before they would.

So I left said company after giveing them my 2 week notice.

1) Anyone kow the legal ramifications of sailing beyond the scope of your papers or without documentation at all?

2) anybody need a wheelhose guy with inside(rivers and ICW, outside towing, anchor handleing and ship assist experiance or know anbody that does?

Danny

1) To the best of my legal knowledge, the ramification would be that your boat is undermanned, and in case someone finds out (CG) your vessel my be detained till getting the full certified crew. The question is what your safe manning documents says about minimum crew and their qualifications?

In case you have an accident involving polution, or injuries and its proven later that you had a knoledge about your crew certificates being insuficient // expired etc - which means you had a good knoledge that your crew is NOT qualified for the vsl - and that would be easy to proove, because as a shipmaster you have legal right and obligation to check the crew cert, in that case you will face serios charges, very hard for your lawyer to defend.

My suggestion - stay clear from that boat and company, b4 something bad happens.

2) For question no2, I have no good answer.

NB in case that your boat does not have safe manning cert. ther must be some legal document or article stating minimun manning requirements and certification of crew for inland waters boat such as yours. So, all the same.
Good luck!