? Sea-Service changes?

[Matt6061]

Im hearing that if U do not use it U lose it phase "lately"?

Ex: If U hold a NC and are running inland Tugs currently U may lose your NC endorsement after 5 Years.

Any one care to shed some light on this_-:

[Capt_Anonymous]

Im hearing that if U do not use it U lose it phase "lately"?

Ex: If U hold a NC and are running inland Tugs currently U may lose your NC endorsement after 5 Years.

Any one care to shed some light on this_-:

I for one am thrilled to hear about this. The Coast Guard finally figured out that the physics involved in operating a vessel inside of the demarcation line are completely different that operating that same vessel outside of the line. Thank goodness they recognize this and are taking proactive steps to keep us all safe.

[Capt. Fran]

Wait C_A, I totally disagree with you (wow, that's 2 things today).

While I do agree that operating a vessel inside the demarcation line is completely different from running outside, let me assure you that my ability to get from A to B via a great circle will not diminish if I take a few years to go back to the Columbia River.

Here's the main problem with today's system: the USCG thinks that it takes more sea time to be proficient sailing Oceans vs. Inland. That's ridiculous. But I don't have a better alternative that wouldn't be hyper-complicated. So, I'll leave it to smarter folks.

By the way Matt, none of my spies have heard anything about this and I would be surprised if it was true.

[Capt_Anonymous]

Wait C_A, I totally disagree with you (wow, that's 2 things today).

Obviously I'm out of practice, as my recent posting rate will bear witness. I was trying to be ironic and sarcastic and just plain grumpy, but it didn't come across apparently.

What else didn't you agree with?

C_A

[anchorman]

Obviously I'm out of practice, as my recent posting rate will bear witness. I was trying to be ironic and sarcastic and just plain grumpy, but it didn't come across apparently.

What else didn't you agree with?

C_A

I got it. "Proactive" was a RED FLAG

[mike173]

Im hearing that if U do not use it U lose it phase "lately"?

Ex: If U hold a NC and are running inland Tugs currently U may lose your NC endorsement after 5 Years.

Any one care to shed some light on this_-:

They have done it with the Tankerman endorsement. I lost mine. But taking away license endorsements makes no sense. That would mean the provision for closely related work would have to be eliminated. You'd have to sail to keep your license. ABS surveyors would lose their licenses. Port Engineers, done. Any engineer working on a motor vessel would lose his steam endorsement, and vice versa. Anyone teaching at a maritime school or academy would lose their's, too. I really can't see that happening, but the Coast Guard isn't known for common sense decision making, are they?

[Capt. Fran]

What else didn't you agree with?

C_A

I love watching football.

[Capt. Fran]

They have done it with the Tankerman endorsement. I lost mine.

Taking away endorsements is a hellavu long way from taking away scope of license. I don't see it happening.

[dougpine]

Taking away endorsements is a hellavu long way from taking away scope of license. I don't see it happening.

Scope of "credential", silly.

[jdcavo]

Im hearing that if U do not use it U lose it phase "lately"? Ex: If U hold a NC and are running inland Tugs currently U may lose your NC endorsement after 5 Years. Any one care to shed some light on this_-:

This isn't new. It's been part of the towing vessel license regulations since they came out in 2001. If you don't have recent service (within the past 5 years) operating a towing vessel, you must perform a demonstration of ability to manuever and handle a towing vessel before a Designated Examiner.

[jdcavo]

They have done it with the Tankerman endorsement. I lost mine. But taking away license endorsements makes no sense. That would mean the provision for closely related work would have to be eliminated. You'd have to sail to keep your license. ABS surveyors would lose their licenses. Port Engineers, done. Any engineer working on a motor vessel would lose his steam endorsement, and vice versa. Anyone teaching at a maritime school or academy would lose their's, too. I really can't see that happening, but the Coast Guard isn't known for common sense decision making, are they?

Actual experience maneuvering and handling a towing vessel is required. Conducting surveys, teaching in a classroom, etc. are not considered the equivalent of maneuvering and handling a vessel.

[TugLife]

I have a 3/M AGT oceans. I have been working on inland tugs for the past 2 years. My next upgrade would be to 500T master. Is there any way to keep the oceans endorsment on the 500T even though I have been working on inland tugs? (Maybe previous outside time?) I have discharge slips from a VLCC that I have never submitted (working as AB) or the fact that I already hold an oceans endorsment?

[dougpine]

Actual experience maneuvering and handling a towing vessel is required. Conducting surveys, teaching in a classroom, etc. are not considered the equivalent of maneuvering and handling a vessel.

Forgive my being blunt, but this is wrong, plain and simple.

Operating a tug is like riding a bike. Once you have the skills, they don't magically disappear after 60 months. It's been ten years since I rode a bicycle, but I could hop on one today and do fine. Same goes for flopping a barge.

It is ridiculous to take one's hard earned endorsement away just because they either have by choice or compulsion been working in a different segment of the industry.

I completely agree that a demonstration of one's skills is necessary, but leave that to the employer. It is insulting and crazy-making to have the USCG arbitrarily remove an endorsement from one's "license" based on the passage of time, especially an endorsement that has gotten so difficult to obtain.

I'm currently a designated examiner. I'm the author of PMI's TOAR guidebook for DE's and MOTV candidates. I have a deep working knowledge of tugs, both conventional and harbor. But, I currently don't work on tugs, and probably won't in the near future. So as my reward for choosing to work elsewhere, I will lose both my MOTV Oceans, and my DE, based on this arbitrary rule. But I teach tugboaters at PMI and MITAGS. I am talking the talk, and walking the walk, but not on an actual tug.

"Honor the Mariner"?

Horseshit, Mr. Cavo.

[anchorman]

Forgive my being blunt, but this is wrong, plain and simple.

Operating a tug is like riding a bike. Once you have the skills, they don't magically disappear after 60 months. It's been ten years since I rode a bicycle, but I could hop on one today and do fine. Same goes for flopping a barge.

It is ridiculous to take one's hard earned endorsement away just because they either have by choice or compulsion been working in a different segment of the industry.

I completely agree that a demonstration of one's skills is necessary, but leave that to the employer. It is insulting and crazy-making to have the USCG arbitrarily remove an endorsement from one's "license" based on the passage of time, especially an endorsement that has gotten so difficult to obtain.

I'm currently a designated examiner. I'm the author of PMI's TOAR guidebook for DE's and MOTV candidates. I have a deep working knowledge of tugs, both conventional and harbor. But, I currently don't work on tugs, and probably won't in the near future. So as my reward for choosing to work elsewhere, I will lose both my MOTV Oceans, and my DE, based on this arbitrary rule. But I teach tugboaters at PMI and MITAGS. I am talking the talk, and walking the walk, but not on an actual tug.

"Honor the Mariner"?

Horseshit, Mr. Cavo.

I couldn't agree more, but unfortunately there are those that can't remember yesterday and that is lowest common denominator by which all standards are written.....

[JP]

Taking away endorsements is a hellavu long way from taking away scope of license. I don't see it happening.

They took away my license that said "master freight and towing" and so now I am restricted to one less area of the industry to find work. They are constantly making it harder and harder to keep working on the water and every time you want to do something different it seems you can not because you are not qualified any more. I really don;t see that all those mariners 10 years ago were so horribly bad. Why can;t we work with the tradition of freedom in this country and try to keep the options open as far as STCW will allow?

[jdcavo]

They took away my license that said "master freight and towing" and so now I am restricted to one less area of the industry to find work. They are constantly making it harder and harder to keep working on the water and every time you want to do something different it seems you can not because you are not qualified any more. I really don;t see that all those mariners 10 years ago were so horribly bad. Why can;t we work with the tradition of freedom in this country and try to keep the options open as far as STCW will allow?

The Master of Freight and Towing license, was not "taken away." In 1987 it was replaced with Master 1600 Tons. At the time, you got a license that gave you MORE authority than you had before. However in the early 1990's things changed following a high profile accident. However, had you worked on towing vessels, you would have been grandfathered to the new license.

[mike173]

The Master of Freight and Towing license, was not "taken away." In 1987 it was replaced with Master 1600 Tons. At the time, you got a license that gave you MORE authority than you had before. However in the early 1990's a tug sunk a train and everything changed, but had you worked on towing vessels, you would have been grandfathered to the new license.

I have to say, I'm more than a little confused. I was operating a tug with a 200 ton license. Then I upgraded to 1600 ton. I WAS grandfathered in, and added a Master of Towing when that became available. And I am just now learning that because I now have a Chief Mate's license, I am to be punished because I dare to work on unlimited tonnage vessels. This makes no fucking sense what-so-ever. Coast Guard logic is definitely twisted.

[dougpine]

I have to say, I'm more than a little confused. I was operating a tug with a 200 ton license. Then I upgraded to 1600 ton. I WAS grandfathered in, and added a Master of Towing when that became available. And I am just now learning that because I now have a Chief Mate's license, I am to be punished because I dare to work on unlimited tonnage vessels. This makes no fucking sense what-so-ever. Coast Guard logic is definitely twisted.

One more renewal.... One more renewal... Deep breaths... Thinking of my happy place...

[seadog6608]

I have a 3/M, AGT, Oceans and Great Lakes Pilotage. I've heard stories for years about scope of licenses being changed because of a lack of recency. I am splitting my time now between ocean sailing and the GL, just to be on the safe side.

[Mike Bolinger]

I am not sure but I would think 3 mate unlimited is inclusive of 500/1600 ton master. At least it was several years ago when I was working the gulf. I sailed with a 3rd that didn't have the 1600 master printed on his ticket but it was understood that he could run master on any limited tonnage vessel with his ticket. Just like 1600 master allows you to run any tonnage under 1600 tons, ie., 500, 200, 100 ton master. Maybe rules have changed.
I will be seriously upset if they take away my oceans endorsement that I worked so hard for and spent so much of my personal money on. I am working inland towboats because the money is better right now and they were the only ones hiring when I was looking for a job. It's bad enought that I have to renew my BST if i don't get any offshore time in the next 5 years. but to take away my endorsements is bs. I can get on an offshore tug tomorrow and put a barge on the hawser just as easy as I can face up to a 15 barge tow today. You don't lose those skills just because you havn't used them in awhile. It is all transferable experience anyway. You have to walk your tug to put a barge on the hawser just like you have to walk your towboat to get faced up. Not exactly the same but very similar.
Most companies are going to make you demonstrate proficiency with one of their trusted captains before they turn you loose on multi million dollar equipment anyway. Why do the puddle pirates need to stick there nose in where it is not needed? They should be following practical examples set forth by the industry. Just like long before the cg came out with the appretice mate/steersman program, towboat companies would make you get your 2nd class outv, then first class pilot all while you were a steersman. only when your captain said you were ready were you turned loose on your own watch. The cg took note of this system and modeled their steersman/appretice mate program after it.
Somebody please give me a heads up if this rumor is true.I dont feel like reading all the legal jargon. I will get an offshore job before renewal if I have to. I am not loosing what I worked so hard for.
thanks
mike