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Thread: Are traditional navigation methods still appropriate on board modern ships?

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    thughes1987 is offline Just Browsing
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    Default Are traditional navigation methods still appropriate on board modern ships?

    Hello,

    I am working on a research project to investigate whether the likes of celestial navigation and the magnetic compass are still appropriate in the modern age of electronic navigation. I would like to get an appreciation of the opinions of today's navigators and captains on this subject and have developed 2 surveys, one aimed at masters and the other at qualified watch-keeping officers. It would be greatly appreciated if you could take the time to complete the appropriate survey using the links below.

    Additionally, if you have any comments or ideas on this subject, they would be greatly welcomed, my email address is thughes1987@hotmail.co.uk

    Thanks, Thomas



    A questionnaire for navigating officers:
    https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1bXW...5Zonk/viewform



    A questionnaire for masters:
    https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1JP3...gzThE/viewform
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    Default Re: Are traditional navigation methods still appropriate on board modern ships?

    Best know Celestial Nav when the shit hits the fan.
    ~ the road goes on forever and the party never ends ~
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    Default Re: Are traditional navigation methods still appropriate on board modern ships?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sweat-n-Grease View Post
    Best know Celestial Nav when the shit hits the fan.
    It's only a matter of time till someone starts shooting down satellites. Every merchant ship afloat will know exactly where they are to a tenth of a nautical mile and every American navy ship afloat will be running around like a chicken with its head cut off since they stopped teaching celestial navigation at Annapolis. Thank god for John Harrison.
    "And all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by..."
    As I was a walkin' down London Road I come to Paddy West's house. He gave me a feed of "American hash" and he called it "Liverpool Scouse". He said, "There's a ship who's wantin' hands, and on 'er ye'll quickly sign! The mate is a bastard, the bos'un's worse but she will suit ye' fine!
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    Default Re: Are traditional navigation methods still appropriate on board modern ships?

    Quote Originally Posted by PaddyWest2012 View Post
    It's only a matter of time till someone starts shooting down satellites. Every merchant ship afloat will know exactly where they are to a tenth of a nautical mile and every American navy ship afloat will be running around like a chicken with its head cut off since they stopped teaching celestial navigation at Annapolis. Thank god for John Harrison.
    That's why God made Quartermasters!
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    Default Re: Are traditional navigation methods still appropriate on board modern ships?

    Some of the new generation of navigators ... are so obsessed and fanatical about the electronic navigation systems like ECDIS and iPhone, that they would hit a cliff during day time in perfect visibility and wonder why !

    A foreign captain react whereas a local pilot anticipate.
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    Default Re: Are traditional navigation methods still appropriate on board modern ships?

    Quote Originally Posted by PaddyWest2012 View Post
    ........ every American navy ship afloat will be running around like a chicken with its head cut off since they stopped teaching celestial navigation at Annapolis. Thank god for John Harrison.
    Navigation on a Navy ship is done by a team which consists either entirely or mostly of petty officers (enlisted). Even when the officers received training in cel nav it was done on a day by day basis by the chief quartermaster.

    There was an interesting paper done on the navy bridge team; Hutchins, Edwin. "The Technology of Team Navigation.
    K.C.
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    Default Re: Are traditional navigation methods still appropriate on board modern ships?

    Quote Originally Posted by PaddyWest2012 View Post
    ...Every merchant ship afloat will know exactly where they are to a tenth of a nautical mile?
    Tenths! So you're saying within 600' or so? Lucky to get down within a couple miles in the real world, but thats on smaller vessels. I think i know what you meant, but don't want this "pollster" to misquote.
    Last edited by z-drive; February 20th, 2013 at 07:10 PM.
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    Default Re: Are traditional navigation methods still appropriate on board modern ships?

    I don't see why the two choices are GPS or celestial nav. There should be some system like Loran as a check or backup to gps, especially coastwise.

    With regards to the gyro vs magnetic compass, with systems that track and display the ship's course continually it's less critical to check the compass error on every watch.
    K.C.
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    Default Re: Are traditional navigation methods still appropriate on board modern ships?

    Quote Originally Posted by Topsail View Post
    Some of the new generation of navigators ... are so obsessed and fanatical about the electronic navigation systems like ECDIS and iPhone, that they would hit a cliff during day time in perfect visibility and wonder why !
    This is one youngster who'd gladly ditch the iPhone and ECDIS in favor of some trig tables and a hunk of highly calibrated aluminum any day!
    "And all I ask is a tall ship and a star to steer her by..."
    As I was a walkin' down London Road I come to Paddy West's house. He gave me a feed of "American hash" and he called it "Liverpool Scouse". He said, "There's a ship who's wantin' hands, and on 'er ye'll quickly sign! The mate is a bastard, the bos'un's worse but she will suit ye' fine!
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    Default Re: Are traditional navigation methods still appropriate on board modern ships?

    Quote Originally Posted by PaddyWest2012 View Post
    It's only a matter of time till someone starts shooting down satellites. Every merchant ship afloat will know exactly where they are to a tenth of a nautical mile and every American navy ship afloat will be running around like a chicken with its head cut off since they stopped teaching celestial navigation at Annapolis. Thank god for John Harrison.
    Are you shitting me? The Naval Academy no longer teaches Celestial Nav? Well I suppose the Local Hour Angle of Aries might mean Happy Hour at a saloon called Aries.
    ~ the road goes on forever and the party never ends ~
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    Default Re: Are traditional navigation methods still appropriate on board modern ships?

    Gee whiz I don't know. Ask Captain Schmuckatelli from the Costa Concordia.
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    Default Re: Are traditional navigation methods still appropriate on board modern ships?

    There's a navigation instrument called ''Depth Sounder''. That instrument shows a numeral digit. If that number decreases, it means that the sea floor is getting closer and closer to the keel of your vessel. In other words, the clearance under keel might finally not be sufficient to apply the Archimedes Principle of flotation.



    Another navigation instrument called ''Radar'' can be use as a positioning system, by means of tools like EBL, VRM or PI. You can even compare the EBL to the Gyro Pelorus. As well, that clever gadget can be employ as an Anti Collision System by means of the ARPA. You don't even have to suffer anymore by plotting manually the target on a plotting sheet or worse, directly on the PPI.



    ...
    A foreign captain react whereas a local pilot anticipate.
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