Page 1 of 9 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 12 of 101

Thread: The Declining U.S. mariner

  1. #1
    C.TurnAndBank is offline gCaptain Crew
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    New Orleans
    Posts
    25
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 9 Times in 6 Posts

    Default The Declining U.S. mariner

    Maritime Academies today are adding a new degree every year and have lost their roots. Academy graduates are coming to our industry with an ‘Unlimited License’ with as little as three month’s of sea-time. Let’s say on average (with the exception of Kings Point) maritime academies provide four months of sea-time on their school ships. (Parking lot watch does not count!!) 120 Days x 24 Hours = 2,880 hours. Of that at least 30% of their time is shoreside, so let’s say 2,000 hours of underway time. With a cadet load of 200 on the training ship, that is 10 Hours of Conning time per student. Seriously?? The problem is so bad that academies are putting simulators on the vessel so their students can get some time actual watchkeeping time. Perhaps I am exaggeration. Maybe they get 20 hours of time at the conn.

    The STCW clearly states that a minimum of 365 days of sea-time is required 180 days of which are required to stand watch. The United States Maritime Academies seem to be exempt. Comments from USCG??

    The Hawespipe. The Hawsepipe is the foundation of becoming a mariner, and some of the best mariners out there came up the ranks. However, today, there are no ordinary seaman left which means it is almost impossible to move up the ladder. In addition the officers are overwhelmed with paperwork and reduced manning to be a proper mentor. How do individuals moving up the Hawespipe today get the time at the Conn?

    The Hawespiper also has to battle with the training, which everyone complains about. However… Did you know... The USCG interprets the STCW to the very Bare Minimum? Literally the United States requires a tiny fraction of the amount of training as our International Counterparts. In fact, the training requirements have been reduced in half by the United States Coast Guard. Why?

    A common thread on gcaptain in regards to the area of training is to do the least for the least. Why not? Why learn the rules of the road, when you can memorize them? Someone with a good memory today, can ace the exam without understanding a thing. Just about every maritime graduates knows of people that knew exactly what was on the test before they even took it. A,C,D,D,B,B,C,C,B,A. Aced Nav Problems !!

    Advanced Technologies, Reduced Manning, Increased Traffic, More Responsibilities – Is this the answer. Less sea-time, less training, more memorization?

    Please, help me regain some faith. – comments?
    Share on Facebook

  2. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to C.TurnAndBank For This Useful Post:

    CurryAK (January 31st, 2013), RubberRhib888 (January 31st, 2013), seriously (February 1st, 2013), Sweat-n-Grease (February 4th, 2013)

  3. #2
    Archimedes's Avatar
    Archimedes is offline gCaptain Crew
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    21
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 7 Times in 4 Posts

    Default Re: The Declining U.S. mariner

    It ain't just the academies who get away with the bare STCW minimum. How much STCW training and assessment is needed to go to Master 500 or 1600? How much time while holding an OICNW endorsement is needed? How much total time for Master 500 or 1600 NC? ( the answer to all is less than the minimum STCW requires)
    Share on Facebook

  4. #3
    z-drive's Avatar
    z-drive is offline Top Contributer
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Made up in push-gear
    Posts
    1,588
    Thanks
    607
    Thanked 787 Times in 480 Posts

    Default

    Not all academy's and majors are created equal. Not to say i disagree with the bar being set low, but on the water experience varies. Any legitimate program requires at least 90 more days of experience on a commercial vessel in addition to the cruises.
    Share on Facebook

  5. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to z-drive For This Useful Post:

    PaddyWest2012 (January 31st, 2013), seriously (February 1st, 2013)

  6. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    307
    Thanks
    195
    Thanked 245 Times in 130 Posts

    Default Re: The Declining U.S. mariner

    Joe Stalin was an optimist compared to myself. I think young people don't want to get dirty to earn a living. A boy who swam on swim team with my daughter went my alma mata and couldn't put up with the regimental bullshit. He saw the Jacques Cousteau majors (marine biology with no hope of landing a job) with the big screen tv's in their rooms having a good time and he needed immediate gratification. He flunked out anyway. It is pervasive in society among young people. My 30 something neighbor wants what I have and I'm 54 and earned everything I OWN. He is one paycheck from financial disaster. It's everywhere not just in our industry.
    Share on Facebook

  7. The Following 11 Users Say Thank You to Too bad steam is gone For This Useful Post:

    cappy208 (January 31st, 2013), catherder (February 1st, 2013), cmakin (February 1st, 2013), Fraqrat (January 31st, 2013), injunear (January 31st, 2013), PaddyWest2012 (January 31st, 2013), RubberRhib888 (February 4th, 2013), seriously (February 1st, 2013), Sweat-n-Grease (February 1st, 2013), Traitor Yankee (January 31st, 2013), Tugs (January 31st, 2013)

  8. #5
    Sweat-n-Grease's Avatar
    Sweat-n-Grease is offline Top Contributer
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Victor, Montana
    Posts
    2,089
    Thanks
    1,502
    Thanked 1,065 Times in 625 Posts

    Default Re: The Declining U.S. mariner

    Quote Originally Posted by Too bad steam is gone View Post
    Joe Stalin was an optimist compared to myself. I think young people don't want to get dirty to earn a living. A boy who swam on swim team with my daughter went my alma mata and couldn't put up with the regimental bullshit. He saw the Jacques Cousteau majors (marine biology with no hope of landing a job) with the big screen tv's in their rooms having a good time and he needed immediate gratification. He flunked out anyway. It is pervasive in society among young people. My 30 something neighbor wants what I have and I'm 54 and earned everything I OWN. He is one paycheck from financial disaster. It's everywhere not just in our industry.
    Where is my GD Thanks button when I want it?
    Thank you for this post.
    ~ the road goes on forever and the party never ends ~
    Share on Facebook

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to Sweat-n-Grease For This Useful Post:

    Capt. Nemo (February 1st, 2013)

  10. #6
    C.TurnAndBank is offline gCaptain Crew
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    New Orleans
    Posts
    25
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 9 Times in 6 Posts

    Default Re: The Declining U.S. mariner

    Quote Originally Posted by z-drive View Post
    Not all academy's and majors are created equal. Not to say i disagree with the bar being set low, but on the water experience varies. Any legitimate program requires at least 90 more days of experience on a commercial vessel in addition to the cruises.
    The STCW requires a minimum of one year of sea-time. Not even the United States Merchant Marine Academy provides that. Show me any State School that provides more than 6 months. Kings Point is a federal school, not State.

    So, with six month's of sea-time, I can take responsibility of a 'super tanker'?
    Share on Facebook

  11. #7
    Jetryder223 is offline Top Contributer
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    In the Dungeon of an old fort.
    Posts
    920
    Thanks
    258
    Thanked 400 Times in 243 Posts

    Default Re: The Declining U.S. mariner

    These friggin Academy kids...nothing but a bunch of educated dumb asses if you ask me. They would rather be studying than standing watch, whine that they never have money - even though they work summer jobs and squander it all on books, off campus food and gasoline. They bitch about standing the midnight watch the day before finals. They even resent getting up before dawn to pass inspections. They get no sympathy.

    The deckies have to be spoon fed as to what to do at a real helm because most their navigation is on a simulator. Back in the good old days, we got our helm experience with a couple thousand tons of steel under us while burning a barrel of bunker a mile.

    Yeah, this younger generation....declining into the abyss -. They should be more like us, huh?
    Share on Facebook

  12. #8
    tengineer is offline Top Contributer
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Florida, Texas, Caribbean and Singapore
    Posts
    840
    Thanks
    55
    Thanked 331 Times in 184 Posts

    Default Re: The Declining U.S. mariner

    Oh my what short memories we have. I can remember, barely, when I started in this business the people that started with me. Most either couldn't cut it or decided another life was better for them. The academy or college grads were just as dumb then as they are now. The wipers were happy with their lot and didn't want to hawsepipe or they did so. Damn, if all the grads, OSs and Wipers loved this job and had the fortitude to move up do you think we'd be anything special? Do you think we'd be in demand? Nothing changes just the players.
    Share on Facebook

  13. The Following User Says Thank You to tengineer For This Useful Post:

    nazeal (February 4th, 2013)

  14. #9
    z-drive's Avatar
    z-drive is offline Top Contributer
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Made up in push-gear
    Posts
    1,588
    Thanks
    607
    Thanked 787 Times in 480 Posts

    Default Re: The Declining U.S. mariner

    I did when i graduated, but whats the big deal? Good, wow, they have a license. But shame on a company or officer for letting them have any responsibility unless they have some experience and can prove they know what they are doing. Thats how it was for me when i came up, and haven't seen it change. Been personally sailing after an academy for a decade-ish and if i changed to a different type of vessel/operation even with "all that sea time" I wouldn't be left alone at first....Not until i've proven i know what i am doing. I don't know too many green 3rd mates being left to stand a watch the first day they report to a ship.

    Quote Originally Posted by C.TurnAndBank View Post
    The STCW requires a minimum of one year of sea-time. Not even the United States Merchant Marine Academy provides that. Show me any State School that provides more than 6 months. Kings Point is a federal school, not State.
    So, with six month's of sea-time, I can take responsibility of a 'super tanker'?
    Are you a king's point apologist? I smell a little troll B.O.... What, 5 posts, all complaints? If you dislike the merchant marine so much, why dick around on a merchant marine forum?
    Share on Facebook

  15. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to z-drive For This Useful Post:

    Jetryder223 (January 31st, 2013), rshrew (January 31st, 2013)

  16. #10
    Jetryder223 is offline Top Contributer
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    In the Dungeon of an old fort.
    Posts
    920
    Thanks
    258
    Thanked 400 Times in 243 Posts

    Default Re: The Declining U.S. mariner

    I'm not sure the OP got my sarcasm.

    If not, I was about to show this washed up curmudgen what one of these youngies are capable of if you piss us off too much.

    Here's a small taste of the pointy stick, 2013 cadet style:












    Share on Facebook

  17. #11
    c.captain's Avatar
    c.captain is online now Top Contributer
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    anyplace other than Bayoo LaFlush!
    Posts
    7,304
    Thanks
    941
    Thanked 2,645 Times in 1,611 Posts

    Default Re: The Declining U.S. mariner

    Quote Originally Posted by jetryder223 View Post
    i'm not sure the op got my sarcasm.

    If not, i was about to show this washed up curmudgen what one of these youngies are capable of if you piss us off too much.

    Here's a small taste of the pointy stick, 2013 cadet style:

    eff you and your stoopid little cartoon!


    .
    Last edited by c.captain; February 1st, 2013 at 05:23 AM.
    Share on Facebook

  18. #12
    z-drive's Avatar
    z-drive is offline Top Contributer
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Made up in push-gear
    Posts
    1,588
    Thanks
    607
    Thanked 787 Times in 480 Posts

    Default

    image-1838718664.jpg


    That's how he sharpens his cadet "pointy stick"
    Share on Facebook

  19. The Following User Says Thank You to z-drive For This Useful Post:

    Jolly Tar (February 1st, 2013)

Page 1 of 9 123 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •