Maritime Schools vs geting my AB ticket on my own?

[Top Hook 55]

Looking for some advice and will appreciate anybody's help.

I spent almost 20 years working on the ocean in the fishing industry, on boats up to 57', even owning my own 55' for the last 4 of those years. I've spent the last few years working in the Middle East as a Government contractor, but this job is about to come to a close. I have a few friends that have left the fishing business and gone on to work tugs and crew boats, primarily in the GOM, due to the economy, regulations and such. They all got their AB ticket based on sea time and took the courses needed on their own time and dime. I would like to get into the industry also, and wondering what the benefits may be going through a school like SIU offers versus getting my AB the same way they did. I know there is no guarantee of employment either way, just wanted to get some opinions from people that have experience in this so I can make a more informed decision. I understand the apprentice program they offer is essentially an unpaid position while you go through it, I am fortunate enough to be in a position where I have enough money in savings to weather it out. Just wondering if it is worth it to burn through the savings or maybe try to get employment now and advance from there. I would like to work towards a QMED position in the future since I have a lot of past experience with the various mechanical systems on the boats I have worked on, but I am willing to start anywhere and work towards whatever goals I set for myself. I am not afraid of hard work or and have worked at least 12 hour days for years now with only 2 weeks off every 6 months. All opinions from both sides will be very appreciated. Thank you.

[Clear Solution]

From N. Carolina? Story sounds familiar..

[workingirish]

I believe that it is easier these days to start from the bottom and work your way up. There are companies out there that will pay for your schooling as long as you go on your off time. Doing that you can make money while advancing. Not sure about unions though. I don't have any experience with them but, I was advised to stay away from that deal.

[NYBoatman]

I believe that it is easier these days to start from the bottom and work your way up. There are companies out there that will pay for your schooling as long as you go on your off time. Doing that you can make money while advancing. Not sure about unions though. I don't have any experience with them but, I was advised to stay away from that deal.

Are you kidding me?!? Starting from the bottom is harder than ever nowadays. Not many companies are doing a training program.

[tugsailor]

Just pay a few hundred dollars to go to a one week school and get both AB and Master 100 tons. You can take the USCG test right at the school on the last day of class. Then go for another week and get BST. At that point you will be ready to go job hunting. Since you have sea time and experience running boats, it would be a waste of six months to go to the union school.

[Fraqrat]

Are you kidding me?!? Starting from the bottom is harder than ever nowadays. Not many companies are doing a training program.

Although it can be challenging to start at the bottom it can still be done. There are many companies that will pay for training from OS-Mate and Wiper-Engineer. Hornbeck, Chouest and even Turdwater all pay for training. I'm sure there are more. I have no idea how it works in the tug industry.

[Capt. Nemo]

Are you kidding me?!? Starting from the bottom is harder than ever nowadays. Not many companies are doing a training program.

That's funny. I have yet to find myself at the top without having started at the bottom! Starting at the top, or even halfway up, would be pretty cool but it's the climb that contributes, in large part, to one's ability to STAY on top. I've been aboard boats with Captains that haven't done enough climbing to occupy the "top" with competence or proficiency.
That said, neither the AB nor the 100 Ton documents are difficult to obtain on your own. BST, however, will require some monetary output and formal training. Not a great deal, but some. From there it's presentation and persistance.
Good luck,
Nemo

[Top Hook 55]

Just pay a few hundred dollars to go to a one week school and get both AB and Master 100 tons. You can take the USCG test right at the school on the last day of class. Then go for another week and get BST. At that point you will be ready to go job hunting. Since you have sea time and experience running boats, it would be a waste of six months to go to the union school.

ed
Thanks tugsailor. While I know either way there will be plenty of courses I'll have to take as I go, I'd rather have a chance of earning while I'm learning. I've been out of the country for so long now and lost touch with a lot of people I used to know, but how is the job climate right now in the industry? While working somewhere that I'd have a chance to go home once a month or so is looking very appealing after all this time away, I'm not opposed to a deep sea job either if it means working and not burning money while I'm looking.

[Top Hook 55]

That's funny. I have yet to find myself at the top without having started at the bottom! Starting at the top, or even halfway up, would be pretty cool but it's the climb that contributes, in large part, to one's ability to STAY on top. I've been aboard boats with Captains that haven't done enough climbing to occupy the "top" with competence or proficiency.
That said, neither the AB nor the 100 Ton documents are difficult to obtain on your own. BST, however, will require some monetary output and formal training. Not a great deal, but some. From there it's presentation and persistance.
Good luck,
Nemo

I'm with you on that Capt. Nemo, when I was fishing I always preferred to work for a captain that knew what it was like to work my job first before taking the wheel. I've always started out at the bottom with everything I've done before so I'm used to it. What is life without challenges?
Been looking at MAMA online, it's only about 3 hours from home and looks like they have every course I'd need to get all necessary documents. First things first, I have to get my TWIC, that requirement came up after I went to work overseas and the short times I've been home since weren't enough time to get it accomplished. It's amazing how disconnected all the Federal agencies are, I have a Top Secret security clearance from the Government but still have to have a background check done in order to get my TWIC. One day they might simplify all this, but I doubt it. Been out of the industry just long enough to forget how bad it can be dealing with all the CG regs, but I know I'm about to find out again real quick.

[NYBoatman]

Its a pain to do it on your own. With having to pay for the classes, flights and hotel while paying your mortgage and other bills it can be difficult. And also having to take off of work to take a class can hurt your pockets too. Now for me i paid for everything on my own. And im still paying cause im upgrading to get my 1600 ton. BUT it can be done and honestly sometimes doing it the this way can make you a better boatman.
Goodluck Bro..

[Top Hook 55]

Thanks for all the useful insight. As soon as I get back to the States I'm jumping right on getting everything renewed, upgraded and taking the AB course at MAMA. Hopefully there are companies looking for deckhands this spring/summer. This has been a good ride, but I'm tired of the desert and ready to get back on the water again. I miss the salt air.
Everybody have a great day.

[tugsailor]

Your security clearance will be very valuable during your job search. I suspect that you probably have many skills and contacts that will be helpful during your job search. TWIC is mess right now. I suggest that you apply for your TWIC and MMC ASAP. While you are waiting you can spend two to four weeks in school to get the BST, AB and 100 ton master classes done. Where to go to school depends on where you live or want to spend time in school. There are plenty of schools with courses at that level.

[Workboat_Academy-Guru]

There are numerous options available for you. Due to manning reductions, unfortunately working your way up the Hawespipe is considerably more difficult than it use to be. Most Deep Sea and Tug Companies no longer have Ordinary Seaman positions, which is the first rung in the ladder.

That being said, if you are fortunate enough to get an OS job and work your way up, that may be the best option for you. There are other options that I am familiar with:

The Seattle Maritime Academy offers a 1 year 'Marine Deck Technology' program through Seattle Central Community college. The program gets you very close to an Able Seaman (special) ticket, but more importantly it boasts strong placement from the program. It is a bit of overkill on the education to become an Able Seaman, however, given that it is a community college, it is extremely inexpensive.

Piney Point is another fantastic option. I believe if you can get in their school it is 100% placement. The down-side, is that the SIU doesn't usually enjoy the best wages, but it is one of the strongest unions in the States.

It would be worth a shot to go to your local Regional Examination Center to see if any of your sea-time would count for an AB ticket.

I believe you also stated that you had some inclination in the Engine Room (QMED). You may really want to look at the Seattle Maritime Academy for their Marine Engineering Program. In my opinion, that program is one of the best in the States. Especially for someone starting from scratch.

Don't discount the Maritime Academies, if you have the means. You might even want to look at the Workboat Academy. You graduate from that program with an Able Seaman - Limited ticket as well as a job.

One more idea. Try the Military Sealift Command. They are one of the few companies that still carry Ordinary Seaman. They also support their people with upgrade training.

[Top Hook 55]

Thanks tugsailor. I was wondering if the clearance would make much of a difference, now I know to empathize it while job searching. I'm looking at MAMA since it is only about 3 hours from where I live, plus I know some people in Va Beach that I may be able to stay with. I'm going to try and get an appointment to start the process of getting my TWIC the day I land in Norfolk, the last time I checked with them I was told it was better than a 2 week process to obtain it. There is nothing better than dealing with a Government office after flying for 20 hours, but I want to get this ball rolling ASAP. According to MAMA's course schedule it looks like I'll be able to wrap up all the courses within the first month I'm home if I start almost immediately. Got my fingers crossed after that, hopefully I'm working this summer.

[tugsailor]

USCG NMC website: http://www.uscg.mil/nmc/ Search under applications, checklists, and courses.

You might want to use a license consultant, like Andy Hammond, to help you present your application and get everything that you are entitled to --- its well worth the small cost.

You can also apply for TWIC online. https://twicprogram.tsa.dhs.gov/TWICWebApp/Privacy.do

MAMA is a good school, but there are many schools offering courses at that level and there may be courses right at home. Take BST at a school that includes full Lifeboatman, in their course, not Personal Survival Craft Restricted or Limited (restricted or limited to liferafts only). The bigger schools like MAMA and MPT are more likely to offer courses every month.

ECO www.chouest.com, and Hornbeck www.hornbeckoffshore.com, both operate government contract vessels. ECO has its own school. Hornbeck has a formal training program, but uses outside schools. There are many other companies that operate government contract vessels.

[Top Hook 55]

Thanks for the information, it's very informative and much appreciated.
Proximity is the primary reason for choosing MAMA, it's only a three hour drive. I live on the Outer Banks of NC, the Tidewater area is the closest major port to us. It's a great place to live, but nothing is close to us, it's even an hour drive to get to the nearest Wal-Mart. All the other schools I saw were a lot further drive from home. I've accumulated almost 250,000 frequent flyer mileage in the last few years, but don't want to use that up for schooling, I'd rather hold on to it for later in case I have to do a traveling to find a job. Thanks for the suggestion on using a license consultant, that seems like a very worthwhile expense.