HMS Bounty and Hurricane Sandy

[JCT]

After nearly two decades with the ship under several different owners, Captain Walbridge wasn't going to be "told" when to sail. I think we can be reasonably sure this was his decision alone, though no one I know can make sense of why. A recent account from one of the survivors (who was apparently the engineer, seems to think Bounty was a schooner and not a full rigged ship, and wasn't aware there was a hurricane) indicates there was an all hands meeting describing how they were going to "circumvent" the storm, and that Captain Walbridge even told them he would hold no ill will toward anyone who decided not to sail. Apparently two of the crew walked in New London.

Again, normal procedure for Walbridge does not represent the entire fleet. Most of us have no idea what Captain Walbridge did during Hurricane season, as most traditional sailing vessels are only in port together during the summer festivals. Once the festivals are over, each ship goes on with its own itinerary. Through these festivals, I knew Walbridge as an affable man who was nursing along a vessel a that the public loved to come see at the dock. What he did at sea wasn't common knowledge except through sea stories, which I think we all agree usually stretch the truth. It's only through the emergence of the video shot in Belfast, ME (which went from 83 views to 40,000 in the last two weeks) that I realize his "sea stories" weren't exaggerations.

Technological glitches have kept me from being able to post here for nearly a week. Few of us who have command positions with these ships were ever "defensive" of Walbridge, as statements by Captains Dan Moreland and Jan Miles indicated the very day of the sinking. It has been novices and extremely loyal Bounty crew who are defending Captain Walbridge. I refrained from instant comments out of respect, because it is a small "community," and there was a great deal of grief in it. Don't take a brief moment of silence for agreement, I think this tragedy was utterly needless.

As far as putting "sea room" between the ship I work for and Bounty -- on 29 October I was in Baltimore with sixteen mooring lines rigged and storm stows in everything. Physically, that's appx. 345nm, as the crow flies, from Bounty's last know position. Operationally, it's in a different universe.

[seadog6608]

The whole enchilada (so to speak) regarding this topic is:

When someone wants to 'take a trip' on a "Tall Ship" they always pay a fee.
For this they are provided a Bunk, Meals, and a tour plan. A LA Windstar, Windjammers, ETC.

What has been lurking just under the RADAR which is just now having the covers pulled off is the industry of paying passengers (Trainees) who are expected (required after vetting) to help actually sail the labor intensive vessels. Some other interesting loopholes are: Educational vessels, Maritime tour vessels, And Non Profit 'Public Educational Tour' vessels. I have seen or heard of several old relics around that give 'tours' for free. But, the 'free' requires a stipend or 'contribution' towards operation. This is Gross Negligence by the operators who (in all reality) are just creaking by on a shoestring budget, and have little, if any maintenance and repair budget. Just because these organizations have called themselves "Not Taking Passengers For Hire" does not actually make it true..

Knowing several marine professionals who crew the 'real' sailing vessels, to be completely honest, there is a different offshoot industry. While respecting the professionals, these 'other' wannabe, old, rotten, rusted rich boys toys are a disgusting hold over to an earlier era of sailing vessels which is both deluded and unaffordable. By breaking the law, and ignoring safety concerns is the ONLY way they exist. Sad. Really SAD.

BTW. Yesterday was the anniversary of the Edmund Fitzgerald!

While these outfits might be in compliance with the letter of the law, they violate the spirit of the law. That, in the end, causes loss of life.

[Steamer]

Have another glass of Kool-Aid, dear ...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2...-wife-aih.html

"I truly feel if he had any reservations he would not have done it ..." Yeah, and if he had any brains or even a quarter of the skills, judgement or ability his sycophants credit him, he would have had a reservation at the nearest Holiday Inn and Claudene would be alive today.

I sincerely hope that the CG doesn't fall for the "speak no ill of the dead" and dump heavily on the kind of dangerous incompetence and lack of oversight this debacle has exposed.

[sealaw]

The recent tragic loss of the tall ship BOUNTY, her captain and one crew member has resulted in an outpouring of emotional comment, much, whether informed or otherwise, being critical of Captain Walbridge, a man not personally known by me. I have been privileged to have sailed extensively on West Coast "tall ships" with several BOUNTY "graduates" mentored by Captain Walbridge. If the shipboard standards and practices of these individuals can be taken as a reliable guide, Captain Walbridge appears to have been an exemplary captain and communicator.

The merit or shortcomings of Captain Walbridge's decision to leave port and his decisions made at sea prior to and once arriving in the area influenced by Sandy must be judged against his "bounded reality" - the scope of knowledge reasonably to be held by a professional mariner, the relevant specific information possessed by or available to him, cognitive factors acting upon his mind - not least the opportunity for confirmation bias - and outside pressures, subtle and otherwise, possibly in play. Unfortunately, neither pundits nor investigators are likely to have full awareness of all factors comprising his bounded reality. The testimony from which causative factors will be determined is likely to be incomplete from imperfect recollection and personal perspective, as well as maybe personal biases and possibly an understandable desire of persons to not speak ill of a respected if not beloved deceased master no longer able to speak for himself. Also, multiple factual scenarios have yet to be developed and assessed, including but not limited to:

• the progression of wind and sea conditions,
• the structural integrity, equipping and design of the vessel, the latter as affected by prolonged working of a wooden hull in a heavy sea;
• the amplifying effect, if any, of the Gulf Stream;
• the effect of possibly failing to downrig the topmasts and related rigging to improve stability and reduce windage as historically was done on tall ships as circumstances warranted or conditions allowed (the photograph taken by Coastguardsman Kuklewski suggests the tophamper was down, whether deliberately or through dismasting);
• the capabilities of the significantly non-professional volunteer crew relative to the conditions to be encountered, and;
• overall, was a pre-departure passage plan developed and risk assessment undertaken.

Hopefully to be avoided, given the many benefits inuring from the presence of the tall ships fleet, is any ill-considered media, politician or regulator driven rush to judgement and resulting plethora of new rules, regulations, policies and procedures inconsistent with the tall ship experience.

The maritime industry speaks largely of "lessons learned" from casualties but informed analysis shows that there are few new "lessons learned' - usually only old lessons learned but not applied in the crucible of casualty. The BOUNTY tragedy provides a dearly bought opportunity for all stakeholders to derive such lessons as may be learned and re-learned for improved safety at sea and invites broader inquiry into those cognitive factors presently under-appreciated as contributors to maritime casualties.

[JCT]

This is a few steps behind the conversation, but I'm new to the forum and it took a week to be able to start posting. Rob was kind enough to post my earlier thoughts about how Bounty represented an anomaly in traditional sailing:

Again, normal procedure for Walbridge does not represent the entire fleet. Most of us have no idea what Captain Walbridge did during Hurricane season, as most traditional sailing vessels are only in port together during the summer festivals. Once the festivals are over, each ship goes on with its own itinerary. Through these festivals, I knew Walbridge as an affable man who was nursing along a vessel a that the public loved to come see at the dock. What he did at sea wasn't common knowledge except through sea stories, which I think we all agree usually stretch the truth. It's only now that the recent video from Belfast, ME has emerged that I realize the "sea stories" weren't exaggerations.

Technological glitches have kept me from being able to post here for nearly a week. Few of us who have command positions with these ships were ever "defensive" of Walbridge, as statements by Captains Dan Moreland and Jan Miles indicated the very day of the sinking. It has been novices and extremely loyal Bounty crew who are defending Captain Walbridge. Many of the rest of us refrained from instant comments out of respect, because it is a small "community," and there was a great deal of grief in it. Don't take a brief moment of silence for agreement, I think this tragedy was utterly needless.

In pointing out that each vessel is independently operated, I simply hoped to clear up the role of Tall Ships America. As far as putting "sea room" between the ship I work for and Bounty -- on 29 October I was in Baltimore with sixteen mooring lines rigged and storm stows in everything. Physically, that's appx. 345nm, as the crow flies, from Bounty's last known position. Operationally, it's in a different universe.

[dugout]

This is a few steps behind the conversation, but I'm new to the forum and it took a week to be able to start posting. Rob was kind enough to post my earlier thoughts about how Bounty represented an anomaly in traditional sailing:

Again, normal procedure for Walbridge does not represent the entire fleet. Most of us have no idea what Captain Walbridge did during Hurricane season, as most traditional sailing vessels are only in port together during the summer festivals. Once the festivals are over, each ship goes on with its own itinerary. Through these festivals, I knew Walbridge as an affable man who was nursing along a vessel a that the public loved to come see at the dock. What he did at sea wasn't common knowledge except through sea stories, which I think we all agree usually stretch the truth. It's only now that the recent video from Belfast, ME has emerged that I realize the "sea stories" weren't exaggerations.

Technological glitches have kept me from being able to post here for nearly a week. Few of us who have command positions with these ships were ever "defensive" of Walbridge, as statements by Captains Dan Moreland and Jan Miles indicated the very day of the sinking. It has been novices and extremely loyal Bounty crew who are defending Captain Walbridge. Many of the rest of us refrained from instant comments out of respect, because it is a small "community," and there was a great deal of grief in it. Don't take a brief moment of silence for agreement, I think this tragedy was utterly needless.

In pointing out that each vessel is independently operated, I simply hoped to clear up the role of Tall Ships America. As far as putting "sea room" between the ship I work for and Bounty -- on 29 October I was in Baltimore with sixteen mooring lines rigged and storm stows in everything. Physically, that's appx. 345nm, as the crow flies, from Bounty's last known position. Operationally, it's in a different universe.

I don't know how to "Thank" your post or I would. Very helpful to folks like me trying to understand. Ah... THANKS!

[c.captain]

Have another glass of Kool-Aid, dear ...

"I truly feel if he had any reservations he would not have done it ..." Yeah, and if he had any brains or even a quarter of the skills, judgement or ability his sycophants credit him, he would have had a reservation at the nearest Holiday Inn and Claudene would be alive today.

I sincerely hope that the CG doesn't fall for the "speak no ill of the dead" and dump heavily on the kind of dangerous incompetence and lack of oversight this debacle has exposed.

I'm providing full text for easier reading of this interview

HMS Bounty captain 'wasn't gambling' with lives, wife says

CBC News Posted: Nov 14, 2012 12:18 AM ET

HMS Bounty sank into the Atlantic Ocean hours after the 16-member crew abandoned ship. One woman died and Capt. Robin Walbridge has never been found. HMS Bounty sank into the Atlantic Ocean hours after the 16-member crew abandoned ship. One woman died and Capt. Robin Walbridge has never been found.

The sinking of HMS Bounty off the coast of North Carolina in rough seas brought on by Hurricane Sandy was an "unfortunate, tragic accident," the wife of Capt. Robin Walbridge tells CBC's As It Happens.

One crew member died after the tall ship went down on Oct. 29. Fourteen people survived, and while initial reports suggested the captain might be among the survivors, the U.S. Coast Guard later suspended the search for the 63-year-old.

Walbridge's wife, Claudia McCann, spoke to As It Happens co-host Carol Off about her husband, his experience as a sailor, and what she has learned in recent weeks about the sinking of the replica tall ship.

Some have questioned why Walbridge chose to sail given the storm conditions, but McCann said people who weren't there with Walbridge and the crew "can't make that call."

"I truly feel if he had any reservations he would not have done it," she said from St. Petersburg, Fla. "He wasn't gambling with anyone's lives. He didn't have a death wish...and he loved the boat. The last thing he wanted to do was lose the ship."

The U.S. Coast Guard is investigating in an effort to determine an official cause of the sinking. The probe will look at a range of issues, including whether there was mechanical or equipment failure, and whether there was any negligence, misconduct or inattention to duty.

A local public television interview with Walbridge from the summer included a quote from the captain saying that he had previously chased hurricanes.

In the interview, Walbridge said "you try and get up as close to the eye of it as you can, and you stay down in the southeast quadrant, and when it stops, you stop. You don't want to get in front of it — you want to stay behind it. But you'll also get a good ride out of a hurricane."

McCann said Tuesday that during the public television interview her husband was "being a little…cute, I guess."

"But he would like hurricanes because they pushed him, they made him go fast. And he's been in many hurricanes. I mean, I can't even count the number of hurricanes he's been in."

McCann said her husband had been trying to navigate around the storm "and get on the east side of it, which is what he did do."

She said that in the weeks since the ship went down, she has learned of a series of "unfortunate circumstances" at sea, including overwhelmed pumps and generator problems.

The crew has been "extremely supportive and caring and loving" since the sinking, McCann said, adding that the first mate spoke to her about her husband's dedication to safety.

McCann said she will remember her husband as a "humble, gentle soul" who touched people's lives around the world.

[ryanwood86]

It looks like the Discovery channel has a show about Hurricane Sandy airing on Sunday. I wonder what will be said about the Bounty.

[Topsail]

Sorry but I don't see much difference between Smith and Walbridge unsinkable captains. They had both that tendency to favor information that confirmed their beliefs perseverance, even after the evidence for them was shown to be false. Confirmation biases contribute to overconfidence in personal beliefs and can maintain or strengthen beliefs in the face of contrary evidence. Self-views asserts people who want to be known and understood by others according to their firmly held beliefs and good feelings about themselves to maintain self-esteem.

One is going to bed, to be in shape the next morning to socialize with passengers, while steaming at nearly full sea speed in the direction of a well known approaching ice field, blinded by frosted lookouts naked eyes in the absence of binoculars while the other, is heading for a well forecasted category 2 hurricane in a wooden tub.

They were not the first nor be the last heroes to be affected by an impairment of normal mental function related to confirmation biases disorder.

[c.captain]

Sorry but I don't see much difference between Smith and Walbridge unsinkable captains. They had both that tendency to favor information that confirmed their beliefs perseverance, even after the evidence for them was shown to be false. Confirmation biases contribute to overconfidence in personal beliefs and can maintain or strengthen beliefs in the face of contrary evidence. Self-views asserts people who want to be known and understood by others according to their firmly held beliefs and good feelings about themselves to maintain self-esteem.

One is going to bed, to be in shape the next morning to socialize with passengers, while steaming at nearly full sea speed in the direction of a well known approaching ice field, blinded by frosted lookouts naked eyes in the absence of binoculars while the other, is heading for a well forecasted category 2 hurricane in a wooden tub.

They were not the first nor be the last heroes to be affected by an impairment of normal mental function related to confirmation biases disorder.

I am not in any way a scholar of anything TITANIC and have not read much about that needless tragedy but is there enough evidence that Smith as fine with the speed and it wasn't Ismay's insistence that the speed be held? I somehow recall Ismay pressuring Smith to crack it on?

[cappy208]

Sorry but I don't see much difference between Smith and Walbridge unsinkable captains. They had both that tendency to favor information that confirmed their beliefs perseverance, even after the evidence for them was shown to be false.

The difference was/ is that passenger vessel design, construction and safety were vastly improved as a result of the Titanic.

Will ANYTHING change on blowboats???

[Topsail]

... Did Ismay force Smith to steam at 23kts thought an icefield where bergs were known to be? Did he protest in private? There is no evidence of him protesting in public in front of his officers ...

I don't think Smith exercised a vigorous and energetic leadership against Ismay wishes to arrive New York ahead of her ETA, because fires were lighted in three additional boilers for the first time on that fatidic Sunday April 14th 1912.

United States Senate Inquiry Day 18, Testimony of Frederick Barrett:

Q. What is your name? - A. Frederick Barrett.
Q. Place of residence? - A. Southampton.
Q. You were a fireman on the Titanic? - A. I was leading fireman.
Q. Were you on duty on the night of the accident? - A. Yes.
Q. How many were there going? - A. There was 24 boilers lit and five without. Fires were lighted in three boilers for the first time Sunday, but I don't know whether they were connected up or not.

As he rose in seniority Smith gained a reputation amongst passengers and crew for quiet flamboyance. Some passengers would only sail the Atlantic in a ship commanded by him. The problem is to keep a balance between commander's leadership and public relations qualities. It is not given to everybody to play drums and sing at the same time, but is a substantial economy for a ship owner.

[c.captain]

I don't think Smith exercised a vigorous and energetic leadership against Ismay wishes to arrive New York ahead of her ETA, because fires were lighted in three additional boilers for the first time on that fatidic Sunday April 14th 1912.

I can say that in the end, only the most truly competent ship master will say NO to an owner when what the owner wants is not safe. If it means losing a job then that is a small price to pay for being RIGHT and maintaining one's reputation for being SAFE. Ending one's career with having been fired ten times for telling owners to eff themselves but never losing a ship or a person is what I would call a successful career which one can look back on with pride of accomplishment.

A master's MORAL duty to this his ship and those aboard her comes before the desires of the office even though just about every office in the world believes otherwise.

[Topsail]

Well, Smith didn't have to be such a good soldier and take that request to the bottom of the letter. For example, he could've received Ismay wishes to light up some more boilers but with the complicity and solidarity from the C/E, not lining up these boilers and others to the steam pressure system for the duration of the darkness into these ice infected waters. As well, in these extreme circumstances, Smith should have stayed on the bridge since he was the one who had the more ship handling experience and posted extra lookouts at the bow equipped as well with binoculars.

As a little lie given to Ismay for the ship's speed poor performance; she reduced speed by herself from ice, wind and Gulf Stream currents adverse conditions ...

[Topsail]

The difference was/ is that passenger vessel design, construction and safety were vastly improved as a result of the Titanic.

Will ANYTHING change on blowboats???

I think that with the first-class publicity were making with regard to the TSC ... Yes !

[c.captain]

In an ultimate display of crass and insensitive behavior, the association for these floating travelling carnivals, the Tall Ship Association has not made mention one on of the loss of the BOUNTY on its website nor has even deleted the ship from its member rolls!

THIS IS BEYOND INCREDIBLE...IT'S OUTRAGEOUS & SCARCELY BELIEVABLE!

[sparkleplenty]

In case it needs to be said AGAIN, I have not talked about the Bounty publicly (either in forums, Facebook, etc) out of respect for her crew (some of whom are friends), and I believe that is why the TSC as a whole has been quiet. It has NOT been to protect the name of the Bounty by any means, but the actual people. However, it has been several weeks, and I am incredibly frustrated by most of what I've read on this forum and others, not to mention the Bounty Facebook page. I am not defending the Bounty, Captain Walbridge or the decision to go to sea. I only wish to defend the rest of the Tallship Community/Industry (I refer to both because I feel that this is both a career to many of us, and it is also a very small, tight-knit community) who are being grouped in with the Bounty defenders. For those of you irked by "Mr Doherty/Dougherty's" comments on Facebook, he isn't in the TSC. Nor are probably 99% of those posting inane comments on the Bounty Facebook page. Lastly, "c.captain" mentioned Tall Ship America has not had any comments or changes on their website regarding Bounty. True, though there were condolences posted on their Facebook page, and frankly, I don't see that page updated often.

1. The crew that makes up the base of the TSCI are by no means "silver spoon," or of that mentality. I have always been drawn to jobs that involve working with my hands, and my family nor I had the money for 4+ years of college. For me, Tallships were the perfect place for me to work outside, teach children, and be a part of something much bigger than myself. I've even scraped pennies together to take diesel mechanics classes at another community college so that I can be more valuable. As far as paying sums to be a "trainee" on Picton Castle, I've never once had to "pay to play." I took my museum teaching experience and found a paying gig as a education coordinator on my first ship, and volunteered only when I wanted to, not so I could eventually be paid crew. Picton Castle does offer a different experience than many other Tallships (she left recently for a circumnavigation), and "pay-to-play" is how she funds her overhead costs. Most other Tallships are funded by donors, educational field trips, "appearance fees" (though this has become more rare), and passenger fees on daysails/overnight sails.

2. As has been said, Bounty was an anomaly. There are a small handful of other Tallships that are privately owned, and not managed by a non-profit. In essence, the USCG saw her as a yacht (which is why she was an "uninspected" vessel), not much different than a private motor yacht. On the other hand, Lady Maryland, for example, is a 104-foot wooden schooner built in 1986 by the Living Classrooms Foundation. She operates March-November with an ecology based program, teaching 4th-12th grade students and sailing with them in the Chesapeake Bay, as well as in New England. To do this, she is inspected every year by the USCG (not only checking the hull, rig, and maintenance, but also making us crew “re-enact” man-overboard, fire, and evacuation drills), has all the proper paperwork showing exactly how many crew and what licenses (and what size) are needed to operate, as well as watertight bulkheads, etc, and amount of sails and size she can carry (i.e., LM can only sail with her main topsail if there are no passengers aboard). Bounty did not have to go through any of this, and might only have a very basic inspection, and carried a six-pack, or 6 passenger max, uninspected vessel license. There is a world of difference between the way she and the majority of Tallships are operated. Why did she advertise school/corporate sails on her website? I don't know how the office planned on making that happen, but I have never heard of that happening aboard Bounty, with the exception of the occasional paying passenger. So why did she not have subchapter T certification? I can't answer that question, only the office or Walbridge can. The problem comes when you begin to think about why a vessel like Bounty should be inspected. Because she carries passengers/pay-to-play? Technically as long as it's six or less, she doesn't need any bigger certification. Because she is a large boat? There are private motor/sailing yachts that size that don't need inspection. Because she's old/wooden/replica? There are again, many many privately owned vessels that old or older that remain uninspected (a friend of mine is restoring a 1920s schooner to use as a charter boat with six passengers, so he won't need any inspection).

In all reality, if USCG rules are changed, that's a hell of a lot more paperwork/manpower/regulation that will have to be put into place, for every single “old boat,” or vessel over such-and-such feet.

3. Many other sailors had heard “sea stories” about her, though I know a lot of us wrote these off as hyperbolic (because sea stories usually are). Since this story and the “we chase hurricanes” interview have come to light, it appearing obvious that many of the stories are not as overblown as we thought they were. I must admit, I have warned friends away from working on the Bounty, and I know I am not the only one.

4. Most Tallships carry greenhands. That’s how we learn. In weather like this hurricane, with as much forewarning as there was available, Bounty should never have left the dock especially with newer crew (I have about six years of experience on Tallships, and the thought of sailing toward a hurricane makes my stomach turn over). She did have eight “experienced” crew with licenses/AB cert, and several others with a couple years of experience, but the rest were all new, including Claudene (note: I don’t consider six months aboard a sailor’s first boat “well-seasoned”).

5. In addition, the ship’s engineer in a recent interview (who boarded the ship in Boothbay, where the ship was hauled out) stated "at that point in time, I didn't know a hurricane was coming" and “we didn’t realize the magnitude of the storm.” That blows my mind. I have to wonder, because of their naivety about the weather (I have to admit, sometimes life aboard a Tallship can become very insular with little news of the rest of the world “outside,” but I try to take opportunities to watch news in the bar, or catch the front page of newspapers, etc, and most definitely pay attention to the weather reports on the VHF) was Walbridge able to psyche the crew up for a “wild ride” and get them to follow him?

6. Finally, if you are a crew member at the dock and hear about Hurricane Sandy, what do you do? Do you jump ship and leave your crewmates behind? Remember, not only does this look bad on your part, but you have also left your friends, and home. If Walbridge hadn’t said that he wouldn’t hold it against them if they left, in the small community of Tallships, this is possibly a blacklisting offense. As crew, where do you go? What if you left and the ship made it to Florida safely? All kinds of things could be said against you. If you incite others to leave, when does it become mutiny (and if other captains hear this, why should they trust and hire you, when you didn’t trust your captain’s judgment)? Other posters on this forum wondered why in the 15+ years that Walbridge was captain on Bounty, why no one said anything about him. What do you say? If something happens that causes you as a sailor to lose your trust in your Captain, where do you go? Do you tell another captain? The USCG? That’s hearsay, and certainly your word as a deckhand versus a captain. If you as a captain of another Tallship hear a sea story that makes you question Walbridge, you’re repeating hearsay and possibly ruining Walbridge’s reputation if it was only a false rumor.

[JP]

I have a good friend who is an ex schooner rat who now sails C/M on box ships and does a good job. He's the only one I've met.

I grew up on my dads schooner he used for commercial fishing, went to high school on sail training vessels and then transferred to the oilfield. Worked my way up from OS to unlimited master and I think I've been pretty successful (especially considering I started sailing professionally in 1977 and I'm female). I also met a CM a couple years ago who sailed on one of the ships my school used and I would say he is pretty successful too. Not too many get a chance to sail on those ships, I would have to say if they get serious about it, its probably one of the BEST ways to learn real seamanship.

[sparkleplenty]

In case it needs to be said AGAIN, I have not talked about the Bounty publicly (either in forums, Facebook, etc) out of respect for her crew (some of whom are friends), and I believe that is why the TSC as a whole has been quiet. It has NOT been to protect the name of the Bounty by any means, but the actual people. However, it has been several weeks, and I am incredibly frustrated by most of what I've read on this forum and others, not to mention the Bounty Facebook page. I am not defending the Bounty, Captain Walbridge or the decision to go to sea. I only wish to defend the rest of the Tallship Community/Industry (I refer to both because I feel that this is both a career to many of us, and it is also a very small, tight-knit community) who are being grouped in with the Bounty defenders. For those of you irked by "Mr Doherty/Dougherty's comments on Facebook, he isn't in the TSC. Nor are probably 99% of those posting inane comments on the Bounty Facebook page.

1. The crew that makes up the base of the TSCI is by no means "silver spoon," or of that mentality. I have always been drawn to jobs that involve working with my hands, and neither my family nor I had the money for 4+ years of college. For me, Tallships were the perfect place for me to work outside, teach children, and be a part of something much bigger than myself. I've even scraped pennies together to take diesel mechanics classes at another community college so that I can be more valuable. As far as paying sums to be a "trainee" on Picton Castle, I've never once had to "pay to play." I took my museum teaching experience and found a paying gig as a education coordinator on my first ship, and volunteered only when I wanted to, not so I could eventually be paid crew. Picton Castle does offer a different experience than many other Tallships (she left recently for a circumnavigation), and "pay-to-play" is how she funds her overhead costs. Most other Tallships are funded by donors, educational field trips, "appearance fees" (though this has become more rare), and passenger fees on daysails/overnight sails.

2. As has been said, Bounty was an anomaly. There are a small handful of other Tallships that are privately owned, and not managed by a non-profit. In essence, the USCG saw her as a yacht (which is why she was an "uninspected" vessel), not much different than a private motor yacht. On the other hand, Lady Maryland, for example, is a 104-foot wooden schooner built in 1986 by the Living Classrooms Foundation. She operates March-November with an ecology based program, teaching 4th-12th grade students and sailing with them in the Chesapeake Bay, as well as in New England. To do this, she is inspected every year by the USCG (not only checking the hull, rig, and maintenance, but also making us crew “re-enact” man-overboard, fire, and evacuation drills), has all the proper paperwork showing exactly how many crew and what licenses (and what size) are needed to operate, as well as watertight bulkheads, etc, and amount of sails and size she can carry (i.e., LM can only sail with her main topsail if there are no passengers aboard). Bounty did not have to go through any of this, and might only have a very basic inspection, and carried a six-pack, or 6 passenger max, uninspected vessel license. There is a world of difference between the way she and the majority of Tallships are operated. Why did she advertise school/corporate sails on her website? I don't know how the office planned on making that happen, but I have never heard of that happening aboard Bounty, with the exception of the occasional paying passenger. So why did she not have subchapter T certification? I can't answer that question, only the office or Walbridge can. The problem comes when you begin to think about why a vessel like Bounty should be inspected. Because she carries passengers/pay-to-play? Technically as long as it's six or less, she doesn't need any bigger certification. Because she is a large boat? There are private motor/sailing yachts that size that don't need inspection. Because she's old/wooden/replica? There are again, many many privately owned vessels that old or older that remain uninspected (a friend of mine is restoring a 1920s schooner to use as a charter boat with six passengers, so he won't need any inspection).

In all reality, if USCG rules are changed, that's a hell of a lot more paperwork/manpower/regulation that will have to be put into place, for every single “old boat,” or vessel over such-and-such feet.

3. Many other sailors had heard “sea stories” about her, though I know a lot of us wrote these off as hyperbolic (because sea stories usually are). Since this story and the “we chase hurricanes” interview have come to light, it appearing obvious that many of the stories are not as overblown as we thought they were. I must admit, I have warned friends away from working on the Bounty, and I know I am not the only one.

4. Most Tallships carry greenhands. That’s how we learn. In weather like this hurricane, with as much forewarning as there was available, Bounty should never have left the dock especially with newer crew (I have about six years of experience on Tallships, and the thought of sailing toward a hurricane makes my stomach turn over). She did have eight “experienced” crew with licenses/AB cert, and several others with a couple years of experience, but the rest were all new, including Claudene (note: I don’t consider six months aboard a sailor’s first boat “well-seasoned”).

5. In addition, the ship’s engineer in a recent interview (who boarded the ship in Boothbay, where the ship was hauled out) stated "at that point in time, I didn't know a hurricane was coming" and “we didn’t realize the magnitude of the storm.” That blows my mind. I have to wonder, because of their naivety about the weather (I have to admit, sometimes life aboard a Tallship can become very insular with little news of the rest of the world “outside,” but I try to take opportunities to watch news in the bar, or catch the front page of newspapers, etc, and most definitely pay attention to the weather reports on the VHF) was Walbridge able to psyche the crew up for a “wild ride” and get them to follow him?

6. Finally, if you are a crew member at the dock and hear about Hurricane Sandy, what do you do? Do you jump ship and leave your crewmates behind? Remember, not only does this look bad on your part, but you have also left your friends, and home. If Walbridge hadn’t said that he wouldn’t hold it against them if they left (According to the interview with Chris Barksdale), in the small community of Tallships, this is possibly a blacklisting offense. As crew, where do you go? What if you left and the ship made it to Florida safely? All kinds of things could be said against you. If you incite others to leave, when does it become mutiny (and if other captains hear this, why should they trust and hire you, when you didn’t trust your captain’s judgment)? Other posters on this forum wondered why in the 15+ years that Walbridge was captain on Bounty, why no one said anything about him. What do you say? If something happens that causes you as a sailor to lose your trust in your Captain, where do you go? Do you tell another captain? The USCG? That’s hearsay, and certainly your word as a deckhand versus a captain. If you as a captain of another Tallship hear a sea story that makes you question Walbridge, you’re repeating hearsay and possibly ruining Walbridge’s reputation if it was only a false rumor.

[sparkleplenty]

(I'm sorry this posted twice.. I've been trying to post here for several weeks now.)