Advice for Conversion from Navy To Merchant Marine

[M_R_Thurman]

So, I'm writing this no reason other than to help other Navy guys that wish to transfer over to the Merchant Marines. I'm a newbie myself, but this is just some advice and experiences.

So a brief Background. I served 8 1/2 years in the US Navy. The first 18months in Nuclear Power School, the following 7 years as a mechanic on board Fast Attack submarines. I left the Navy as a Chief and started my transition.

So up to speed, I started this whole process in Febuary 2010, It's now Dec 2010 I just completed testing and should have my 3 A/E STEAM in about two weeks. Following issuing I still need to get a one month course to add HFO diesels to my license. End result about a year to be fully licensed to sail on all vessels.

Now, Much of this time delay was due to me not knowing how to get things done and nearly all of it was waiting on one thing or another. Hence me writing this to help others avoid the same mistakes I made.

Step 1) If you are even considering this career before you get out of the Navy, get your TWIC card. You need this to even apply to the US Coast guard for evaluation. It takes a few weeks to a month and can save you some time if you start early.

Step 2) Get plenty of character/Professional recommendations while you are in service. As all military members know the squeaky wheel gets the grease. I waited nearly a month to get the Letters of recommendations I wanted. You need at least 3 to apply for a Merchant Mariner Document. If you have them in hand from Chiefs, Div o's, Department heads, CO's ect early you have saved some time. These people may have appreciated you when you were there, but are very hard to get to things from when you are out of the service.

Step 3) Get a Sea Service Transcript before you get out..... I don't know if this is even possible. Mililington writes them once you are out, but will not recieve your record until after you are DISCHARGED... This doesn't mean terminal leave. I had to wait 3 months after my EAOS to receive mine. So 60 days terminal + 3 months = 5 months waiting on a stupid piece of paper.... My advice. Your Current CO can write a sea service letter for the time served at your current command.... But not previous commands. Get PSD to figure out what a Sea Service Transcript is, Have them write one to date and have the CO sign one when you leave your ship on terminal.... Send BOTH into the coast guard for evaluation.

Step 5) Send your record into the NMC for evaluation. Request the Highest thing you can reasonably imagine you deserve. Then send them as much supporting paperwork as possible, Schools, Evaluations, Letters of Commendation/ NAMS ect. I was approved for 3 assistant Engineer STEAM only... I know others who have slid by and received a Diesel endorsement too. But request anything you can.

Step 6) This is debatable and really depends on your dedication to become a Merchant Mariner at all costs and how rapidly you want. The NMC will take up to 60 days to evaluate your application and determine what you are eligible for. If you recieve an officer endorsement you will need certain classes before you take an exam.... I can't tell you what these are so you will just have to wait. I needed a one week Fire Fighting course. HOWEVER, if you plan on doing any work outside of the US international law requires a series of courses for a STCW 95 certification. These are basic courses everyone needs so you could spend some money while you are waiting and take these. These requirements are going to change soon (2012 i think) but any for profit maritime school will be able to help you figure out what you need. Mine were as follows

1 week Basic safety training (Personal survival technics, First aid/CPR, personal Safty Social responsibility, and Fire fighting) - Cost $950

Furthermore on training, If you want to ASSUME what the NMC will approve you for, You could take more STCW courses. This may save you some time but could also become a costly mistake if you assume wrong.

In total I had the following classes

Basic Safty training mentioned above $950
Proficency in Life Craft - $995
Medical First aid provider - $650
Basic and Advanced Fire fighting - $750

I also took a non-required 3week Exam Preparation course - $2000

Step 7) After you complete all you classes and are ready to take an exam, Take your exam and get your credentials!!!


Other tips and Advice. Marine schools are expensive but food and lodging can be expensive too. PRICELINE dot com saved me a ton on hotels and such (altough I only need them 4 days a week as I lived about 3 hours from the school). But Crew houses are another good option. Search for a crew house with shared accomodations and I would guess about $300 a week with everything included.

once the coast gaurd (NMC) approves your application for some rating QMED, Engineer, Mate, ect call around to a few unions. I found one that offered to pay for all my room, board and schools if I commited to working for them 3 years.... I politely declined, based off my finacial situation and the whole being afraid of contracts now.... But it was a great opprotunity, schooling paid for and an employer all at the same time.

I know this is a long and drawn out post with mostly personal experiences but maybe it can help someone. If anyone has any further advice or feels I am off basis please comment. Like I said, I'm very new and lack experience in the industry and could be wrong on a few points.

Happy sailing,
-Matt


The following words and phrases added purely to assist in searches.
Military to Merchant transition, Submarine service to Merchant Marine, Nuclear Mechanic, Electrician, Electronic Technician Chief Petty Officer, First Class Petty officer, Second Class Petty officer, Engineering Officer of the Watch.

[M_R_Thurman]

I forgot to mention a few financial things. The TWIC card costs about $125, and Evaluation of your record cost about $140. So up to step 5 you have only committed a few hundred dollars to this whole process.

Also this website helped me get started when I was looking,
http://www.marad.dot.gov/mariners_la...o-Mariners.htm

Feel free to contact me anytime,
-Matt

[BMCSRetired]

The NMC is writing a new instruction for former military members. I had to fight for seven months but in the near future another policy letter is coming out, specifically addressing this. Submitting completed assessments signed by Commanding Officers without the required licensed will be accepted. It was always accepted in the CFR's but the evaluators were not allowed to accept them. You had to appeal and really work at it (seven months).

Allegedly, this new instruction is in the approval phase now. This was from someone at the NMC. I hope they were serious because I kept the e-mail.

[james.hatch]

Hey Boats, seems like a common situation with licensing of deck personnel. I retired as a QMCS in 07 and spent a year fighting with USCG evaluators concerning licensing. Still not where I wanted to be but at least have a license and am working. I have met numerous former sailors in the last couple of years with the same experience. Common excuses are your experience cannot be applied or is not documented. Navy training has not been evaluated blah blah blah. Seems that somebody took the time to evaluate the training for the Smart transcript why not have the USCG take a look. Also seems that officers and engineering types get a somewhat easier shake. I am anxious to see what this new policy says. Jim

[BMCSRetired]

Hey Boats, seems like a common situation with licensing of deck personnel. I retired as a QMCS in 07 and spent a year fighting with USCG evaluators concerning licensing. Still not where I wanted to be but at least have a license and am working. I have met numerous former sailors in the last couple of years with the same experience. Common excuses are your experience cannot be applied or is not documented. Navy training has not been evaluated blah blah blah. Seems that somebody took the time to evaluate the training for the Smart transcript why not have the USCG take a look. Also seems that officers and engineering types get a somewhat easier shake. I am anxious to see what this new policy says. Jim

Senior,

U r correct about the training. The reason being that the CFR's specifically address officer's training and the Academy for the short courses. We r kinda in limbo on our (enlisted) side. However, IF you get a former Commanding Officer that will go to bat (i.e. follow with letters and phone calls) you can prevail. The problem is documenting training. The CFR specifically states that an underway OOD letter covers the documentation of training for the assessments but the assessments MUST BE SIGNED OFF and only a licensed person or the CO can do it. Luckily I had a CO (10 years ago now) that I was committed to, went above and beyond the call for, and she was and IS loyal to her crew. She has been helping for seven months and I am approved to test for 3rd UNL.

This is an issue near and dear to my heart and something I want to work on for "future generations". It is a long term project but is doable. Both us being former QMCS' will be advantageous and maybe we can get more Chiefs and some officer types on the bridge and engine room side to round this group out. If you are interested or you have other shipmates that are interested in working together on a united front for both NAVY and USCG enlisted to get these changes implemented to the training programs and at NMC, please contact me offline through this site. If nothing else, others will get the documentation and licenses they deserve after "standing the watch".

[M_R_Thurman]

So, Just one last update to my first post.... This will probably be the last also. I Signed up with a union as an applicant and received my first job as a 3rd A/E on board a steam vessel that used to belong to MSC. Now it is just sitting in standby status next to the pier and doesn't go anywhere (called ROS for you non-mariners). So, my wages are crap compared to the rest of the industry. But I work a 9-5 and have "duty" once of every 5 weekends....

As mentioned above I still need my Diesel crossover course.... This was offered days after I got my licence, but I would have had to pay the $5000 out of pocket, plus lodging and such.... I figured about $7000 by the time it was all over with..... and having spent nearly $8k on transportation, lodging and schools before hand, I decided to wait and see if I could do some time and get an employer to pay for it....

In hind sight, that was also a mistake... since obtaining my licence in January I have only worked a minimal amount of time and had to pass up a ton of high paying jobs because I didn't meet the requirements (3rd A/E Diesel endorsement)..... This was due to me ONLY being eligible for a 3rd A/E STEAM position.... So I would commit to a short stint that may start in week or two, work for a week or two, and repeat.... I should have paid for the course and it would have paid for itself in the first month....

However, I have made SOME money. Enough to get by, and have a good career track ahead of me.... I find the people I work with are intelligent and helpful and am very happy I made the Transition.... I understand that the numbers are slightly daunting.... Nearly $15,000, 2 1/2 months of school and months of waiting.... However I think it will all be worth it...

Hope this all helps, If I can be of any assistance to anyone feel free to PM me.

[Jeffrox]

$15,000...that sounds like about 4-6 weeks salary for an underway 3A/E, not such a bad investment. Did you remain in the Navy Reserve?

[M_R_Thurman]

Jeffrox,

No I've decided that the reserves just isn't for me at this point and time. I'd rather spend a few more months a year sailing and earning some money, and spend what little free time I have traveling.... I know it's not a ton of time but 36 days a year drilling... Plus the very real possibility of being called up doesn't appeal to me right now... Maybe a few years down the road when I've burned off my youth and want to spend more time at home....

Take care,
Matt