1600t Master to 3rd Mate

[Stareed]

I received my 1600t Mate (NC) in August of 05' (yes I did and the assessments and classes) and added celestial in Dec of 06, Tested for Master 1600t (Oceans) in march of 08' license was issued in April.
I had applied for My Thirds at the same time as my masters, but was told that i would have to test for it to. In policy letter 01-02 it says under the raise in grade section that if you were issued a 1600t mates after Feb 03' "no further testing or assessments are required". When i questioned my evaluators supervisor she told me the policy letter was wrong! And I would have to test. The test is not that big of a deal, the travel, the hotel room, the scheduling IS! I don't understand how thier own policy letter says one thing and the NMC says something diffrent. HELP ME!

[Capt Brian]

Stareed - From what I understand, when you tested for the 1600 t Mate, that test is the SAME test as the 3rd M test. It seems to me that the evaluators that are in place at NMC need some remedial training on the policies and procedures. This is frustrating for the mariners to have to "deal" with so many interpretations from different individuals. Hopefully, in the future, NMC (Mr. Cavo excluded, of course) will all get on the same page. I am planning on submitting my app for 3rd M as soon as I get off this time and see what kind response I get. Maybe Mr. Cavo will help you out with your dilemma. Good luck!

[jdcavo]

Stareed -- send me an e-mail with the specifics of when you gotr the Mate 1600, etc. and what and when you were told tyou needed to re-test. If I have specifics I can take it up with the evaluators. If I only have "I read on the internet..." there's not much too work with and I'm probably going too far in sticking my nose in others' work. Note that even though that part of the policy letter is still accurate, if you last took a license test more than a year ago you'll need to take a rules test.

[Stareed]

Mr. Cavo, I will email you later today with all the dates, names and so on.

I know for a FACT that when I took my 1600t NC mate in July 05' in Toledo that it said ( Mate 500/1600/AGT) on the cover of all the test packets. I told the proctor that I had been given the wrong test; To which she replied " All the mates tests are the same now", and after testing she even made the remark " You must feel good...you will not have to test again until your ready for your Chief Mates exam ". When I took the celestial test to upgrade to 1600t Mate of Oceans in Dec of 06' in Boston the proctor gave me the AGT oceans exam. I again asked if that was correct, and was told once again that all the mates tests where the same.
Thank you for the help.

[jdcavo]

I'll see what I can find out. I can't tell without looking into it some more, but the evaluator may be confused by their being different exam numbers for 3rd Mate than Mate 500/1600. They are all the same exam, but our primitive exam generation system doesn't let us segregate data based on the license you're testing for. In order to segregate data on how Mate 500/1600 applicants do from data on 3rd Mates, we had to assign different exam numbers even though the recipe to generate the exam from our question pool is exactly the same.

[Robert]

I'll see what I can find out. I can't tell without looking into it some more, but the evaluator may be confused by their being different exam numbers for 3rd Mate than Mate 500/1600. They are all the same exam, but our primitive exam generation system doesn't let us segregate data based on the license you're testing for. In order to segregate data on how Mate 500/1600 applicants do from data on 3rd Mates, we had to assign different exam numbers even though the recipe to generate the exam from our question pool is exactly the same.

It really is great to have someone from NMC willing to post here and try to help mariners. In fact, it would be great if we could get more people from NMC participate like Mr. Cavo does. I think it would certainly go a long way to changing perceptions.

[Stareed]

Mr. Cavo,
I recently sent you all my info via email, did you receive it?
Also I was told by a license consultant that the NMC is in-fighting over this issue( testing vs policy ). Is this true?

[jdcavo]

I got two such e-mails, so I don't know which was from you. We have weekly policy meetings with CG HQ and this is going to be discussed in Thursday's meeting. I should have something definite after then.

I wouldn't call this NMC in-fighting as the instruction to do so apparently came from CG HQ. The NMC evaluators seem to agree it's not required, but there was a policy interpretation out off HQ that it is.

[Robert]

I got two such e-mails, so I don't know which was from you. We have weekly policy meetings with CG HQ and this is going to be discussed in Thursday's meeting. I should have something definite after then.

I wouldn't call this NMC in-fighting as the instruction to do so apparently came from CG HQ. The NMC evaluators seem to agree it's not required, but there was a policy interpretation out off HQ that it is.

Well Mr Cavo. You know what makes a person an expert in the Coast Guard don't you? A set of orders to HQ!

[Capt. Nemo]

Funny,

The same thing happens when the FAA sends a guy to two or three weeks of school in Oklahoma City. He starts school as just a pilot. He exits as an expert on all things aviation and more knowledgable about flying than anybody else in the world; even other FAA inspectors.

There ARE some experts in each branch of government. Unfortunately, the one's that know what they're talking about are frequently obscured by the ones who don't know shit.

Nemo

[Capt Brian]

Mr. Cavo - Have you come up with an answer for the 2 emails that you recieved (Stareed and myself)? Just curious as to the outcome?

Thank you - Capt Brian

[Capt Bulkhead]

I asked the same question to an evaluator at the New Orleans REC and was literally laughed at. I tried to explain that I was reading straight from NMC Policy Letter 01-02 Section 11 and he told me to take it up with them. I emailed the NMC and got this reply,

Paragraphs(a), (b), (c) and (e) specifically state "Effective 1 February 2002". Paragraphs (d) and (f) were only good until 1 February 2002 and are no longer apply.

This is a little late for the original post but maybe it will save others a lot of headache.

[Ocean31]

I asked the same question to an evaluator at the New Orleans REC and was literally laughed at. I tried to explain that I was reading straight from NMC Policy Letter 01-02 Section 11 and he told me to take it up with them. I emailed the NMC and got this reply,

Paragraphs(a), (b), (c) and (e) specifically state "Effective 1 February 2002". Paragraphs (d) and (f) were only good until 1 February 2002 and are no longer apply.

This is a little late for the original post but maybe it will save others a lot of headache.

So.... now I am confused. Reading the initial posts, it would seem if you have a 1600 masters (recent issue, within the last two years) you can also get a 3rd mate unlimited issued as long as you take a new nav test.

Or is all the above not correct. Is it that you have to go through a long drawn out process to get to move from 1600 Master/Oceans to 3rd mated unlimited?

[New3M]

If it's true that, once taking a 1600 ton masters, you only need a new nav test to get a 3M unlimited, why is it that a 3M unlimited = <100 ton masters, but when you upgrade to 2M unlimited, there's only one more test to take to get the 1600 ton masters?

[Seadog56]

I didn't realize the license exams have been dumbed down to such an extent. I found this website while I was looking for a "flashing light box" for a crewmember. According to the articles, they have even dumbed down the flashing light exam to 4 wpm!!! I wonder if the airlines are in the same dilemma??? That's a frightening thought!! I think I will drive a rental car to the vessel from now on. So what is the mindset today??? French fry chef or Captain??? Time to make your career move.

[Capt Brian]

I guess I will find out very soon. I am submitting my application package on Monday in Miami. Hopefully, all works out for me for 3rd Mate Unlimited. Will post my results on here as I get them.

[Capt_Anonymous]

Have you guys also read Policy letter 16-02, which changes 01-02 section 11?

It makes some changes to paragraphs (a) and (e), but says nothing about (d) and (f) no longer applying.

[Capt_Anonymous]

I guess I will find out very soon. I am submitting my application package on Monday in Miami. Hopefully, all works out for me for 3rd Mate Unlimited. Will post my results on here as I get them.

Brian while you're at it, make sure you put in for Master Any Gross Tons Inland, based on:

Marine Safety Manual, Chapter 10 (c) (3)
Master 1600 GT Upon Oceans or Near Coastal Waters To Master Any GT Upon Inland Waters
Mariners holding a license as Master 1600 GT Oceans or Near Coastal may apply for a Master Any GT Inland license utilizing 46 CFR 10.435. A tonnage limitation will be placed on the Inland license as per 46 CFR 10.402(b) and (c). Mariners may remove the tonnage limitation on the Inland license by serving one year on vessels over 1600 GT.

[Capt Brian]

Thanks Capt A....will do that.

[Stareed]

IF you received a 1600t mates after 2003, you can upgrade to 3rd mate with the correct sea time and tonnage. The USCG combined the questions from the OLD 2nd,3rd,and 1600t mates into one question bank that the test is drawn from. SO if you past the 1600t mates test after 2003, then you passed the same test as a third mate passes to get that license. There was no DUMBING down, They made it harder to receive a mates ticket than it was when there was 3 separate tests of varying difficulty. IF you didn't take the mates test after 2003 but have a 1600t Master then you will have to take the new mates test to receive 3rd Mate