master of towing 500ton

**kevin.osullivan** · October 6th, 2011, 08:01 PM

[h=My question is what I would need to be issued a 500 ton masters license? I currently hold a 3^rd Mate Unlimited Tonnage license, which also lets me operate as a master on vessels not more than 100GT (46CFR15.901). I read that you need 1080 days of sea time for a first issuance of the license. I didn’t know if there is less time required because I already hold a 3^rd mates ticket. ]5[/h] [h=I am also in the process of submitting 30 days of near coastal sea time onboard tugboats which should issue me my Mate of Towing endorsement (46CRF11.465) and I already have a complete TOAR. ]5[/h] [h=I believe if I hold a mate of towing and a 500 ton master’s license I should be able to upgrade to master of towing after 30 sea days on a tug. Could someone shed some light on this and clear up any misunderstanding I may have.]5[/h] [h=Thanks ]5[/h]

**Capt. Phoenix** · October 6th, 2011, 09:11 PM

How did you get your 3M?

**jdcavo** · October 7th, 2011, 04:50 AM

Originally Posted by kevin.osullivan

My question is what I would need to be issued a 500 ton masters license? I currently hold a 3^rd Mate Unlimited Tonnage license, which also lets me operate as a master on vessels not more than 100GT (46CFR15.901). I read that you need 1080 days of sea time for a first issuance of the license. I didn’t know if there is less time required because I already hold a 3^rd mates ticket.

I am also in the process of submitting 30 days of near coastal sea time onboard tugboats which should issue me my Mate of Towing endorsement (46CRF11.465) and I already have a complete TOAR.

I believe if I hold a mate of towing and a 500 ton master’s license I should be able to upgrade to master of towing after 30 sea days on a tug. Could someone shed some light on this and clear up any misunderstanding I may have.

Thanks

It's easier for you to get Master 1600, see 46 CFR 11.412(b). Without experience on your 3rd Mate license, you can't get either Master 500 or Master 1600.

**kevin.osullivan** · October 7th, 2011, 09:12 AM

I got my 3rd Mate when I graduated from Mass Maritime Academy. Ive have about 500 sea days on 100 ton vessels with 100 days as master. i didnt know if any of that would help me upgrade

**rshrew** · October 7th, 2011, 09:54 AM

You need to get 1080 days as a mate/pilot if towing to get your master of towing no test for that upgrade as well. If you don't upgrade your tonnage it will be a 200ton master of tow, at least that's what they gave me.

**mtskier** · October 7th, 2011, 10:38 AM

Just curious, but how much sea time is granted to graduates of the Academies in order to receive their 3rd Unlimited? I ask in reference to 46 CFR 11.304 a&b.

**Capt. Phoenix** · October 7th, 2011, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by mtskier

Just curious, but how much sea time is granted to graduates of the Academies in order to receive their 3rd Unlimited? I ask in reference to 46 CFR 11.304 a&b.

None. If you do not work unlimited you need to get all the sea time required by actually working.

**rshrew** · October 7th, 2011, 01:01 PM

I have no clue I'm not sure they let you use it anyways we never got a seatime letter just a licence.

**jdcavo** · October 8th, 2011, 08:16 AM

Originally Posted by mtskier

Just curious, but how much sea time is granted to graduates of the Academies in order to receive their 3rd Unlimited? I ask in reference to 46 CFR 11.304 a&b.

Technically, none. They do not qualify for their 3rd Mate or 3rd AE license by having sea time, they get it because graduating from an academy is an alternative in the CFR to having sea time. This differes from programs like PMI's workboat academy and the Mate 500 programs at Maine Maritime and SUNY Maritime where the approval of the program is given credit for sea time. This is also how a cadet at an academy whose training ship is steam can get a motor license, or vice versa.

**mtskier** · October 8th, 2011, 09:46 AM

Ah, I see. I wondered how they were able to upgrade so quickly.

**Capt. Phoenix** · October 8th, 2011, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by mtskier

Ah, I see. I wondered how they were able to upgrade so quickly.

How who is able to upgrade so quickly?

**mtskier** · October 8th, 2011, 11:52 AM

I was operating under the assumption ( I know) that the academy grad's were regulated under the CFR I referenced above and therefore would get credit for days actually sailed once they received their 3rds. But it appears that they are able to start with 1080 on the books so to speak.

**cappy208** · October 8th, 2011, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by kevin.osullivan

I got my 3rd Mate when I graduated from Mass Maritime Academy. Ive have about 500 sea days on 100 ton vessels with 100 days as master. i didnt know if any of that would help me upgrade

Your time at the academy doesn't count. That you have a 'License greater than 200 tons" (EG 3rd unlimited) lets you do the TOAR and 30 day thing. Once you slip in to the MOTV license that way, here is the next step.

The short answer is: Yes. That time will help.

This is a loophole I didn't know existed! You can qualify under (b.) Once you do the TOAR submittal, and have that license in hand, and get one year (360 days) as master or mate of a towing vessel, you can do a "limited exam" (whatever that consists of!?) and get a 500 ton NC/or Ocean if you want to do celestial over again.

How recently did you get your license?

Here is the actual 500 ton CFR cite: 10.418 - Service requirements for master of ocean or near coastal steam or motor vessels of not more than 500 gross tons.

The minimum service required to qualify an applicant for a license as master of ocean or near coastal steam or motor vessels of not more than 500 gross tons is:

(a) Three years total service on ocean or near coastal waters. Service on Great Lakes and inland waters may substitute for up to 18 months of the required service. Two years of the required service must have been as a master, mate, or equivalent supervisory position while holding a license as master, mate, or operator of uninspected passenger vessels. One year of the required service as master, mate, or equivalent supervisory position must have been on vessels of over 50 gross tons.

(b) The holder of a license as master or mate (pilot) of towing vessels authorizing service on oceans or near-coastal routes is eligible for a license as master of ocean or near-coastal steam or motor vessels of not more than 500 gross tons after both 1 year of service as master or mate of towing vessels on oceans or near-coastal routes and completion of a limited examination.

**cappy208** · October 8th, 2011, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by mtskier

I was operating under the assumption ( I know) that the academy grad's were regulated under the CFR I referenced above and therefore would get credit for days actually sailed once they received their 3rds. But it appears that they are able to start with 1080 on the books so to speak.

They're not. A graduate of any school does NOT have 1080 days aboard ship, underway. Maybe training, or classroom, but not the same as a hawsepiper. Possible 180 days on the sea cruise, and another 180 on two commercial ships. Totaling 360. That's all.

**Capt. Phoenix** · October 8th, 2011, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by mtskier

I was operating under the assumption ( I know) that the academy grad's were regulated under the CFR I referenced above and therefore would get credit for days actually sailed once they received their 3rds. But it appears that they are able to start with 1080 on the books so to speak.

They only get actual sea time logged aboard actual vessels while in school, if they have the letters of sea service. If you read the requirements for 2M it only says 360 days as 3M, not a total amount of days like the limited licenses. To get a limited license you still need the whole total it calls for on actual boats.

**Capt. Phoenix** · October 8th, 2011, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by kevin.osullivan

I got my 3rd Mate when I graduated from Mass Maritime Academy. Ive have about 500 sea days on 100 ton vessels with 100 days as master. i didnt know if any of that would help me upgrade

You need 1080 days to get the master 500 so you need another 580. If you can get a job towing coastal or oceans then use cappy's suggestion.

I know you want to have as big a license as possible but don't think you are anywhere near qualified to be a captain on a tug with 30 days towing...