Exams and Testing

[Shellback]

There are several of us here, that will be testing this year for various licenses..I thought it might be useful to start a thread about the testing process,the rules and experiences others have had in the past..

Some of the things I am interested in :

What surprises did you encounter during testing , if any?
Did you run across ambiguous questions?

Did you ever appeal a question?
If so, what was the outcome of that process?

Where there questions that should have been appealed?
Your opinion of the testing process in general...

I'll stop there and let others add there input..

One thing that I am running into is there are several questionable, questions out there that I don't think should be there..My understanding is that NMC is trying to clear them out of the pool but if you think you may have found one,post it and lets work it and check it..Maybe we can help eliminate some of them..

[JP]

I took the 1000 ton mate, 1600 master/2nd mate unlimited, 2nd mate unlimited (new system), and chief mate unlimited. I only remember this last test there was a question on my chart plot that I wanted to appeal. If I remember right, it was a set and drift problem. I could swear it was wrong on the test. I wanted to appeal it but since I had passed that section, the coast guard people in charge there said I could not appeal it. I hope someone else does not get that test and answer that question correctly because then they will miss those points on the test.

[Capt. Lee]

I would not even worry about having to appeal a question. Just try to pass the test with enough breathing room to not have to worry about appealing.


The biggest surprise I ever had during my testing career with the Coast Guard was a slip problem on my celestial test. I was like thank you for the freebie. Why was it there? I don't know, but I damn sure wasn't going to appeal it.

[water]

One problem you can encounter when studying for a limited tonnage license is knowing what to study for. The only source I am aware of if 46 CFR 11.910, which is a table stating what subjects are required for each level of license.

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text...0.1.2.11.9.7.3

According to the table, Ocean Track Plotting for the ocean endorsement for 500/1600 T Master should only include ETA. However, the module can include mid latitude, Mercator, and great circle sailing. Also fuel conservation. None of these subjects are indicated in the CFR table to be included at the 500/1600 level, but they can be there.

If you are studying at the 500/1600 level, you apparently need to follow the 2nd mate guidelines. It would be helpful if the USCG would either follow the CFRs, or update them. This problem might not be an issue if you are taking a prep class because the instructor has an good idea of what is on the exam, and is continually getting feedback from students. However, if you are studying on your own, it becomes an issue.

If you want to protest a question, you need to do it before you leave the exam room, so you need to have your wits about you and be able to write a coherent protest immediately. You can't take 24 hours to digest what you just went through, and then protest. If you protest a morning exam, you'll likely have your response that afternoon.

[jdcavo]

...I wanted to appeal it but since I had passed that section, the coast guard people in charge there said I could not appeal it.

You can always fill out and submit the form. If you fail byone question, it's considered a "challenge" and can be considered for the purpose of changing your grade to passing. If you pass, or fail by more than one question, it's considered a "comment" and gets a lower priority. It is not immediately sent to NMC for immediate response, but it does get looked at and if appropriate, the question gets changed or "archived" (removed from the active pool.

[rshrew]

For terrestrial they will only let you use universal plotting sheets. When I was in school we used radar plotting sheets for set & drift problems which I thought was easier but when I tested they would not allow the radar plotting sheets.

[Tugboattim]

I found it useful to also study the pubs that are allowed to be used in the exam room. Know the layout, where to find information, formulas, ect. This will save you a lot of time, and will also help you double check questions you are not sure of. Its not fun getting questions wrong, when they could have easily been looked up right in front of you. Same thing goes with the charts, study the charts, symbols, abbreviations.

[Robert]

For terrestrial they will only let you use universal plotting sheets. When I was in school we used radar plotting sheets for set & drift problems which I thought was easier but when I tested they would not allow the radar plotting sheets.

I find that rather strange. Maneuvering Boards are listed in the Deck Exam guide as material allowed in the testing room.

[rshrew]

I find that rather strange. Maneuvering Boards are listed in the Deck Exam guide as material allowed in the testing room.

So did I! That was at the Oakland rec 6 years ago though...

[Shellback]

One problem you can encounter when studying for a limited tonnage license is knowing what to study for. The only source I am aware of if 46 CFR 11.910, which is a table stating what subjects are required for each level of license.

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text...0.1.2.11.9.7.3

According to the table, Ocean Track Plotting for the ocean endorsement for 500/1600 T Master should only include ETA. However, the module can include mid latitude, Mercator, and great circle sailing. Also fuel conservation. None of these subjects are indicated in the CFR table to be included at the 500/1600 level, but they can be there.

If you are studying at the 500/1600 level, you apparently need to follow the 2nd mate guidelines. It would be helpful if the USCG would either follow the CFRs, or update them. This problem might not be an issue if you are taking a prep class because the instructor has an good idea of what is on the exam, and is continually getting feedback from students. However, if you are studying on your own, it becomes an issue.

If you want to protest a question, you need to do it before you leave the exam room, so you need to have your wits about you and be able to write a coherent protest immediately. You can't take 24 hours to digest what you just went through, and then protest. If you protest a morning exam, you'll likely have your response that afternoon.

Water: I see what you mean...I found this on the NMC site but it supports the CFR..I wonder if there is a policy letter that explains this?

3. Exam Room Procedure:
When an application for examination is submitted, the applicant should be prepared to be examined on all
the material applicable to the officer endorsement or rating endorsement for which the application has been
made. Examinations may be administered only when all regulatory prerequisites are completed. To allow
Exam Room Supervisors to manage their time and resources, it is recommended that applicants be required to
make appointments for all exams. Subject to the Exam Room Supervisor's discretion, applicants may start the
exam on any day the office is open. A limit of 3½ hours may be provided to each applicant to complete a test
module. The examination fee set out in 46 CFR Table 10.219(a) in Sec. 10.219 must be paid before the
applicant may take the first examination section.

[Shellback]

For terrestrial they will only let you use universal plotting sheets. When I was in school we used radar plotting sheets for set & drift problems which I thought was easier but when I tested they would not allow the radar plotting sheets.

That's interesting ,they list them here ...Which doesn't mean anything, I have had a bad experience with the Oakland Rec in the past and will not be going there ..

.I've also heard there are different plotting sheets that you can request also..

Available from the Examination Team at NMC:
COMDTPUB P16721.29 Operating Manual DEEP DRILLER (MODU exams)
COMDTPUB P16721.30 Operating Manual COASTAL DRILLER (MODU exams)
COMDTPUB P16721.31 Stability Data Reference Book
COMDTPUB P16721.32 Manual for loading the M/V GRAND HAVEN (Great Lakes exams)
COMDTPUB P16721.38 Reprints from the Light Lists and Coast Pilots
COMDTPUB P16721.46 Reprints from the Tide Tables and Tidal Current Tables
HO PUB No.9 The American Practical Navigator, Volume II – 1981 Edition
GPO SN 040-000-00418-1 Training Nautical Almanac
May be locally produced:
Stability work sheets
Radar plotting sheets
May be provided by the applicant:
Star Finder – 2102-D or equivalent
Calculator – See Exam Room Materials Section of the Instructions for rules concerning calculator use.
Plotting tools – i.e. dividers, triangles, nautical slide rule

[rshrew]

That's interesting ,they list them here ...Which doesn't mean anything, I have had a bad experience with the Oakland Rec in the past and will not be going there ..

.I've also heard there are different plotting sheets that you can request also..

Available from the Examination Team at NMC:
COMDTPUB P16721.29 Operating Manual DEEP DRILLER (MODU exams)
COMDTPUB P16721.30 Operating Manual COASTAL DRILLER (MODU exams)
COMDTPUB P16721.31 Stability Data Reference Book
COMDTPUB P16721.32 Manual for loading the M/V GRAND HAVEN (Great Lakes exams)
COMDTPUB P16721.38 Reprints from the Light Lists and Coast Pilots
COMDTPUB P16721.46 Reprints from the Tide Tables and Tidal Current Tables
HO PUB No.9 The American Practical Navigator, Volume II – 1981 Edition
GPO SN 040-000-00418-1 Training Nautical Almanac
May be locally produced:
Stability work sheets
Radar plotting sheets
May be provided by the applicant:
Star Finder – 2102-D or equivalent
Calculator – See Exam Room Materials Section of the Instructions for rules concerning calculator use.
Plotting tools – i.e. dividers, triangles, nautical slide rule

Good looking out, ya Oakland was a pain. Glad I'm done testing what a stressful process that was.

[jdcavo]

Water: I see what you mean...I found this on the NMC site but it supports the CFR..I wonder if there is a policy letter that explains this?

Not a policy letter, but it is in the beginning sections of the Deck & Engine exam guide (available on NMC's web site).

[Capt. Fran]

Deck Exam Guide link, referred to by Mr. Cavo.

I highly recommend everybody that is going to test become very familiar with the General Information section, as well as the section for your particular license modules.

[Cal]

I tested a little over a year ago. The course I had taken was for a 1600 Ton Near Coastal Mate but I was applying for a Third Mate with a tonnage restriction. None of my instructors could answer whether or not my exam would be exactly the same, they could only state it should be. The CFR's also indicated that it should cover the same material as that I had been studying. Since I was unsure I expected needing to take the exams twice, which I did, but not because of differences in the material. My problem was more of a personnel issue, a disgruntled former evaluator whose job had been absorbed by the NMC. He did not believe that I qualified to sit for the license I was sitting for. As he was the one proctoring my exams, he pulled out the tough ones.

My first time taking the exams I questioned nothing, challenged nothing, and, for the most part, said nothing. I hammered out 5 modules the first day and the 6th the second day. Missed two modules by 1 and a third module by 2. My first Deck Safety exam had 17 stability calculations, that didn't include the regular stability questions. It appeared to me to be skewed with too much emphasis on stability questions. My second time taking the exams was a different story. I questioned the Proctor about the cover sheet on my Nav Gen exam, it indicated it was for a Third Mate Oceans, was it the same exam as a Near Coastal as that was all I was applying for? I also challenged 2 questions, one on the Rules and the other on the Chart Plot. Neither one mattered because I passed whether I got them wrong or not.

Basically, the first time through I played dumb. Second time I didn't. He still gave me a humdinger of a Chart Plot though, one I hadn't seen before and the hardest one I had ever done.

[Shellback]

I tested a little over a year ago. The course I had taken was for a 1600 Ton Near Coastal Mate but I was applying for a Third Mate with a tonnage restriction. None of my instructors could answer whether or not my exam would be exactly the same, they could only state it should be. The CFR's also indicated that it should cover the same material as that I had been studying. Since I was unsure I expected needing to take the exams twice, which I did, but not because of differences in the material. My problem was more of a personnel issue, a disgruntled former evaluator whose job had been absorbed by the NMC. He did not believe that I qualified to sit for the license I was sitting for. As he was the one proctoring my exams, he pulled out the tough ones.

My first time taking the exams I questioned nothing, challenged nothing, and, for the most part, said nothing. I hammered out 5 modules the first day and the 6th the second day. Missed two modules by 1 and a third module by 2. My first Deck Safety exam had 17 stability calculations, that didn't include the regular stability questions. It appeared to me to be skewed with too much emphasis on stability questions. My second time taking the exams was a different story. I questioned the Proctor about the cover sheet on my Nav Gen exam, it indicated it was for a Third Mate Oceans, was it the same exam as a Near Coastal as that was all I was applying for? I also challenged 2 questions, one on the Rules and the other on the Chart Plot. Neither one mattered because I passed whether I got them wrong or not.

Basically, the first time through I played dumb. Second time I didn't. He still gave me a humdinger of a Chart Plot though, one I hadn't seen before and the hardest one I had ever done.

Damn Cal, I think I 'm sorry I started this thread...lol..BTW, just for the heck of it where did you test?

[Cal]

Damn Cal, I think I 'm sorry I started this thread...lol..BTW, just for the heck of it where did you test?

I tested at the St Louis REC.

It wasn't all that bad Shellback, I mean, hope the for best but prepare for the worst, it's no big deal. Even with the effort I had put into eliminating them, I still had big unknowns walking into the tests. Being one of those guys that has the luck of testing well, it bruised my ego a bit, but having to retake them wasn't that big a deal. The biggest inconvenient truth that I learned? If I had been testing for the 1600 Ton license that I had taken the course for, I would have only needed to retake the 3 modules I failed! On the second day of testing I planned on taking Deck Safety first thing in the morning (the last module) and retaking Rules in the afternoon. When I failed Deck Safety by 2 questions I was still happy, until he dropped the bomb on me that I had to retake all 6. I wanted to schedule the retest right away, starting the next day and he said that we needed 3 consecutive days for testing (this was on a Tuesday). His response confused me, so I had to ask him, are you closed for some reason? (it was around the holidays that I tested). They weren't so I had W - F to retest. While a tad offensive, I would like to think that he was purposefully being dense, because if he wasn't, that's just sad.

When I applied for my AB upgrade in 2005 I submitted my application to the New York REC because I worked in New York. It made sense to me. After taking 13 months to process that application I vowed I would never let New York handle my paperwork ever again. While the examiner in St Louis may have been a speed bump, his role was minimal and I knew that. I smiled a lot and gave him the respect he deserved but also knew he didn't have the ability to stop 3 years of effort and sacrifice.

It's a good thread to have started.

[Jemplayer]

I'm doing my test prep right now at Fletcher in Houma, LA and some of the guys that tested this week said that New Orleans was out of radar plotting sheets and they had to use the maneuvering sheets. Caught a few of them off guard.

So yes they can have them, but don't count on it is what I can gather.

[50thState]

If you are studying at the 500/1600 level, you apparently need to follow the 2nd mate guidelines. It would be helpful if the USCG would either follow the CFRs, or update them. This problem might not be an issue if you are taking a prep class because the instructor has an good idea of what is on the exam, and is continually getting feedback from students. However, if you are studying on your own, it becomes an issue.

Does anyone have any more information on this, like is there an accurate source somewhere for what exactly is on these exams? And if not, wtf is the Coast Guard doing?

I'm taking the 1600 ton master oceans when I get studied up and so far I've just been trusting Lapware's filter to give me everything I need to know, and filter out all the other, is this technique going to work for me?

[Shellback]

Does anyone have any more information on this, like is there an accurate source somewhere for what exactly is on these exams? And if not, wtf is the Coast Guard doing?

I'm taking the 1600 ton master oceans when I get studied up and so far I've just been trusting Lapware's filter to give me everything I need to know, and filter out all the other, is this technique going to work for me?

50, I don't have any idea where a person could nail that info down....Between Water, Cal and Capt Lee's experiences went, it looks like anything goes...I mean a slip question on a celestial test ? Really? Granted, it was a good thing for Capt Lee but did it belong there?

I have been in touch with Lapwares techs on a few questions that are so ambiguous that I have just decided to memorize them...

If there is ever a chance for mariners to sit on an oversight committee of these questions, I really want a spot on it..

Hope for the best , be prepare for the worst...Good luck