Effective October 14, 2008 NEW RULE: Master of 200GRT or Less to Mate (Pilot) Towing

[MaJoX]

If you hold any endorsement as a master of steam or motor vessels of any tonnage that is 200 GRT or less, except for the limited masters endorsements specified in 46 CFR 11.429 and 11.456, then you may obtain an endorsement as mate (pilot) of towing vessels by meeting the following requirements:
(1) Providing proof of 36 months of service as a master under the authority of an endorsement described in paragraph (e) of this section;
(2) Successfully completing the appropriate TOAR;
(3) Successfully completing the appropriate apprentice mate exam; and
(4) Having a minimum of 30 days of training and observation on towing vessels for the route being assessed

OK Questions

"36 months of service as Master under the authority of the license"
While holding a master 100 ton, does time as master of a 50 ton towing vessel not operating as a towing vessel but as uninspected utility/crew boat count?

"appropriate apprentice mate exam"
What is on the coast guard exam?
Is there one test for all routes?
Also is a "Approved to Test" letter required to test or can the exam be given at the same time as submitting the application?

This concludes my questions of the day!! thank you

[ollie]

Can only help with parts of your question bank.

What is on the exam can be found on page 3-62 , click here.

There are different tests for different routes (Oceans, NC, Inland).

You absolutely need to get an approved to test letter before sitting for the exam.

[jdcavo]

...Also is a "Approved to Test" letter required to test or can the exam be given at the same time as submitting the application?

You need the approved to test letter before you can take the test from the Coast Guard. You do not need it to take an "Apprentice Mate (Steersman)" course that will substitute for the test, the course will be accepted up to one year from the date of course completion. Warning, if you take a course, make sure the course is approved to substitute for the specific exam(s) you will need.

[MaJoX]

OK thank you. Found a school, Columbia Pacific Maritime, they said their "Apprentice Mate (Steersman)" course is approved for all routes. So that part should be done soon, now just need to verify that my " time (12 hour days) as master of a 47 ton (not 50 ton) towing vessel not operating as a towing vessel but as uninspected utility/crew boat counts?

[jdcavo]

I would ask Columbia Pacific to show you the approval letter for the course. I no longer have access to approval data since I left NMC, but I would be surprised if a school in the Pacific NW has a course approved for western rivers. Note that for towing vessel license, the "superior route" doesn't apply. You can't operate a towing vessel on western rivers with a near coastal license. If you are looking for a towing license for inalnd and near coastal then you're probably OK but I'd look into it a little more if you want western rivers.

Your time has to be on a towing vessel. I can't determine if the vessel you were on would be considered a towing vessel.

[MaJoX]

Yes, all I am looking to get is near coastal mate of towing now. I will make sure that they can do that, seeing the approval letter for the course is a good idea.

As for sea time, yes, the TOAR and 30 days of training and observation is on towing vessels.
The time in question is the 12 hour days I have as master ( holding a 100 ton NC license ) of a 47 grt vessel, documented as an uninspected towing vessel, BUT when I was master was not used for towing ( i.e. pushing, pulling, assisting ) BUT as a crew-utility boat ( i.e. transporting personnel, equipment and supplies on deck ). The question is: does this count as "Master under the authority of the license", to be used as part of the "36 months of service as Master under the authority of the license"?

A vessel documented as towing vessel is not a "towing vessel" if it is engaged in non towing work, yes? That is the case for OSV engaged in non OSV work ( i.e. diving, survey ) yes?

[jdcavo]

The time you spent as Master on the vessel employed as a crew boat should count towards the requirement for 36 months as Master.

[MaJoX]

Even though it is uninspected?

[jdcavo]

See 46 CFR 11.465(e)(1)

[Azimuth]

What subchapter was the vessel operating under? Typically, a "towing" vessel is a towing vessel regardless of the type of service it is engaged in. It has been my experience that only the COTP can grant a waiver (ie for manning requirements, etc...)

[Capt-G]

If you hold any endorsement as a master of steam or motor vessels of any tonnage that is 200 GRT or less, except for the limited masters endorsements specified in 46 CFR 11.429 and 11.456, then you may obtain an endorsement as mate (pilot) of towing vessels by meeting the following requirements:
(1) Providing proof of 36 months of service as a master under the authority of an endorsement described in paragraph (e) of this section;
(2) Successfully completing the appropriate TOAR;
(3) Successfully completing the appropriate apprentice mate exam; and
(4) Having a minimum of 30 days of training and observation on towing vessels for the route being assessed

OK Questions

"36 months of service as Master under the authority of the license"
While holding a master 100 ton, does time as master of a 50 ton towing vessel not operating as a towing vessel but as uninspected utility/crew boat count?

"appropriate apprentice mate exam"
What is on the coast guard exam?
Is there one test for all routes?
Also is a "Approved to Test" letter required to test or can the exam be given at the same time as submitting the application?

This concludes my questions of the day!! thank you

except for the limited masters endorsements specified in 46 CFR 11.429 and 11.456 the CFR states 100 ton master near coastal and inland so if i read this correct this doesnt apply to 100 ton masters either Inland or near coastal. anyone have any more info on this matter

[jdcavo]

I can't figure out how you arrived at this conclusion. The "Limited Master" referred to in the regulations are specific licenses given only to persons employed on vessels operated by yacht clubs, marinas, and "formal camps." The licenbse will read "Limited Master of Steam and Motor Vessels..."

[Capt. Phoenix]

I can't figure out how you arrived at this conclusion. The "Limited Master" referred to in the regulations are specific licenses given only to persons employed on vessels operated by yacht clubs, marinas, and "formal camps." The licenbse will read "Limited Master of Steam and Motor Vessels..."

Oh, the "launch driver" license?

[Capt-G]

I can't figure out how you arrived at this conclusion. The "Limited Master" referred to in the regulations are specific licenses given only to persons employed on vessels operated by yacht clubs, marinas, and "formal camps." The licenbse will read "Limited Master of Steam and Motor Vessels..."

the reason im asking this question is my License read
Master Of Inland Steam or Motor Vessels of not more than-100-Gross TONS; ALSO, Authorized to engage in Commercial Assistance towing.

(e) If you hold any endorsement as a master of steam or motor vessels of any tonnage that is 200 GRT or less, except for the limited masters endorsements specified in 46 CFR 11.429 and 11.456, then you may obtain an endorsement as mate (pilot) of towing vessels by meeting the following requirements:
(1) Providing proof of 36 months of service as a master under the authority of an endorsement described in paragraph (e) of this section;
(2) Successfully completing the appropriate TOAR;
(3) Successfully completing the appropriate apprentice mate exam; and
(4) Having a minimum of 30 days of training and observation on towing vessels for the route being assessed, except as noted in paragraph (b) of this section.

the CFR states
except= § 11.456 Service requirements for limited master of Great Lakes and inland steam or motor vessels of not more than 100 gross tons.

topLimited masters' endorsements for vessels of not more than 100 gross tons upon Great Lakes and inland waters may be issued to applicants to be employed by organizations such as formal camps, educational institutions, yacht clubs, and marinas with reduced service requirements. An endorsement issued under this paragraph is limited to the specific activity and the locality of the camp, yacht club or marina. In order to obtain this restricted endorsement, an applicant must:


My situation is i was Licensed in 1996 and ran as Master of Tug around 70 gross tons for 5 years i then changed careers and during that time i never renewed now year 2011 i would like to continue working on a Tug as Master of Towing. I hope my time 5 years as a Master of a tug counts towards my renewal/upgrade to master of towing can i go straight to Mate of towing with this rule above or do i need to start Aprentice mate (steersman) towing this stuff is so confusing.

i hope you can understand me here. i want to know is my ticket a "Limited Masters"
Gary

[jdcavo]

Oh, the "launch driver" license?

Not really, but similar. "Launch Driver" generally refers to the Limited OUPV license in 46 CFR 11.467(g). The Limited Master has similar requirements and restrictions, but is used for slightly larger vessels carrying more people for organizations like Sea Scouts.

[jdcavo]

Probably not, but without knowing exactly what your license/endorsement says, I can't say for sure. Did you hold OUTV at the time you were working on towing vessels? If so, there may be an issue as to whether experience under a license as an "operator" can be considered experience as Master. This would have to be balanced and reconciled with the likelihood that someone with 3 years experience as an "operator" on a towing vessels is probably a lot further along towards being a mate on a towing vessel than a master who has never been on one.

[Capt. Phoenix]

Not really, but similar. "Launch Driver" generally refers to the Limited OUPV license in 46 CFR 11.467(g). The Limited Master has similar requirements and restrictions, but is used for slightly larger vessels carrying more people for organizations like Sea Scouts.

I remember maine maritime had a course one summer people were calling a launch drivers license, and I believe it was for limited master. No tonnage limit but could only go like 3 miles from land or something. That is why I know it as a launch drivers license, right or wrong. (Launches I am familiar with easily carry more than the six allowed by oupv.)

[jdcavo]

I remember maine maritime had a course one summer people were calling a launch drivers license, and I believe it was for limited master. No tonnage limit but could only go like 3 miles from land or something. That is why I know it as a launch drivers license, right or wrong. (Launches I am familiar with easily carry more than the six allowed by oupv.)

The basic requirements (sea service, training) are mostly the same for Limited OUPV and Limited Master. The likely difference will be in the limited examination, the Limited Master will probably be more extensive based on the additional passengers. Also, up until the recent past, there has been some erroneous application of the Limited Master and Limited OUPV license to situations where it is not approiate because the vessels it is used on are not operated by yacht clubs, etc. Exampoles include duck boats and fishing guides, or the more infamous "mule drivers" (mule drawn passenger barges on navigable waterways). For those situatioons, the appropriate license is rthe "regular" OUPV or master license, with a modification to the servise and/or exam requirements and a corresponding limitation on the license under 46 CFR 11.201(i). I beleive the course at Maine was appropriately used for people who would work for yacht clubs and marinas.

[chemcarrier]

What subchapter was the vessel operating under? Typically, a "towing" vessel is a towing vessel regardless of the type of service it is engaged in. It has been my experience that only the COTP can grant a waiver (ie for manning requirements, etc...)

Be careful with this guy!!

[junbug]

Quick question... I juz got my credentials an I'm tryin to get in tha industry as entry-level but itz very difficult... I'm going for my BST an I'm wondering if it will help me get in a union or get a job on a tugboat???