Submitting to CG for 3rd mate unlimited

[paco3333]

I have a question on the 78 assesments that the CG wants for me to test for third mate unlimited. I was under the impression that most of these were covered by the classes I have taken. Now they are saying that I am missing 2-1A thru 3-2M which are the assessments covered by watchkeeping, ARPA and Radar classes. ANd I have searched, the only assesments that appear on any site, are just the first 1-1A thru 1-7C, that I have and knew I had to get on a ship. Can anyone clarify this for me. I have a person that I am paying to put this packet together so it can go directly to NMC and she is claiming I still need these assesments signed before she will submit the package.

This is getting ridiculous, I have taken the classes they listed on my own dime, and I have the sea time...shouldn't it be that easy?? ANy help out there or recommendations??

[anchorman]

I have a question on the 78 assesments that the CG wants for me to test for third mate unlimited. I was under the impression that most of these were covered by the classes I have taken. Now they are saying that I am missing 2-1A thru 3-2M which are the assessments covered by watchkeeping, ARPA and Radar classes. ANd I have searched, the only assesments that appear on any site, are just the first 1-1A thru 1-7C, that I have and knew I had to get on a ship. Can anyone clarify this for me. I have a person that I am paying to put this packet together so it can go directly to NMC and she is claiming I still need these assesments signed before she will submit the package.

This is getting ridiculous, I have taken the classes they listed on my own dime, and I have the sea time...shouldn't it be that easy?? ANy help out there or recommendations??

Not all courses are equal. Make a list of all the assessments needed, then get with the school on each of the courses and what assessments are covered. Two different schools may teach the same course, but are approved for different assessments. Some require control sheets, some don't. I had the same problem several years ago with the Chief Mate classes. Each school covered all assessment, but due to my schedule, I took some at each school. Because I did that, I missed some assessments and has to regroup. Some that were covered in stability at one school was in the cargo class of the other. You can check it all out, but remember, a 1600 Master or 2nd Mate can sign you off. There is a misconception that it has to be a 3rd Mate or higher, when in fact, a 3rd can't sign you off, but a 1600 ton Master can.

[Ea$y Money]

If you are looking for the assessment "package" then go to the NMC website at http://www.uscg.mil/nmc/policy_guidance_date.asp and click tab 2002 and you will find links to policy letter 01-02. You will need all 3 parts to see all of them. I have been very confused as well because I have been taking classes at different schools like anchorman's post described. I was planning on getting them all signed the old fashioned way just in case the CG didn't accept the course certificate. Good luck.

[paco3333]

Thank you gentlemen for the quick response. I will call the school tomorrow and see what assessment is covered by there certificate approval. I am looking at the Watchkeeping cert and it says that it "satisfies the training requirements and Standards of Competence for Seafares in Watchkeeping towards OICNW License of any tonnage as per USCG Policy Letter 01-02as well as theINternational.....etc . As I read this, it seems to me that they cover the assessments, but i will make sure tomorrow at MPT. Thanks again

[BMCSRetired]

Paco,

Also, look at your certificates from the schools, it will state which assessments the schools covered and completed.

In the future when u go for Master/Chief, have them sign the assessments in the enclosures because just because it fulfills the training, it does not mean it fulfills the assessment unless you were in a full simulator. Read each assessment to see if it needs to be a simulator or actual hands on.

[jdcavo]

As anchorman noted, not all couirses are equal. If a course does a particular assessment or an equivalent, they get credit for it in the course's approval. The "core" approval of an ARPA course just says it meaets the ARPA training requirements in 46 CFR 11.202(c). If there are no assessments in the course, that's all the approval for the course will say. If a course does a specific assessment, and you can't pass the course wothout passing the assessment, the course approval will also say that completing the course will be accepted as completing the assessment. If the assessment is in the couirse, but you can pass the course without passing the assessment, the school has permission to sign the assessment control sheet.

The above exists as some schools were outspoken and reluctant to add all of the assessments, so the above allows a school the discretion to structure their courses as they wish, and the market will have a role in dictating whether they include the assessments. Unfortunately, it's caveat emptor for the mariner/student. If anyone else is looking for a course, the best advice is to ask the school you're thinking of going to show you their course approval letter from the NMC (not the certificate).

[paco3333]

Gentlemen, thank you again. I went back and fixed all assessments that they needed, even if they were covered by the school, but just to ease the process. But it seems that I have gotten to my last stage and I have been denied again. My package got to my final stage and assigned an evaluator, but she now says that it is missing stuff.
My question, to reverify, is on flashing light. I took it last summer, as in over a year ago, but I submitted a package for this same license. My kicked it back because they said my Naval sea service was not documented correctly and it took me over a year and getting off the ship to resubmit my package again now. I was told that since it has been submitted once in the year recency, then the cert for flashing light was valid to resubmit with this license package. it is the same package, I have not changed my license desire. It just takes a while to get everything for a third mate unlimited, and we do have to work and I work with MSC, longest sea service without shore time.
ANyone have any trouble of this sort, or ref they can give me to shoot back to them?

Thanks

Frank Santana

[rwells78]

Here is a typical Flashing Light course approval:
Any applicant who has successfully completed your 1-day Visual Communications (Flashing Light) course will satisfy the practical signaling examination requirements (flashing light) of 46 CFR 10.401(h) if presented within one year of the completion of training; AND will be considered to have successfully demonstrated the equivalent of assessment OICNW-4-1A from the National Assessment Guidelines for Table A-II/1 of the STCW Code. Applicants who have successfully completed your course need not present a completed “Control Sheet” for this assessment in application for STCW certification.

You can argue you DID present it within a year, just not on your current application. Good Luck.

[danzante]

PMI & MITAGS has a list of which assessments are conducted as part of each courses' approval in our AB to Mate brochure, pages 5 & 6.
Regards,

[jdcavo]

...You can argue you DID present it within a year, just not on your current application. Good Luck.

Yes, you can certainly argue that. Just don't expect it to be successful.