1600 Master/3rd Mate Unltd adding Oceans

[CaptKrunch]

I recently upgraded to 3rd Mate as well as the Large OSV however I still have the near coastal restriction. I have reviewed some of the topics on this board and need clarification of the process.

As I understand it, you must first take a class. There is an operational level class and a management level class. You can test in-class for the lower level but must test at the Coast Guard for the upper level. Correct?

Now, can I take just one class and test at the Coast Guard and satisfy the requirements for both licenses or must it be separate?

Furthermore, there are classes that are only 2 weeks in length and then (most) there are those that are 3 weeks in length. Is it the longer one that is for the Management level (ie Ch. Mate/Master)?

What is my best and most efficient route to upgrade to an Oceans endorsement? While it's not absolutely necessary (won't give me a raise either) it does seem a little pointless to have an unlimited tonnage license while restricted to within 200 miles from land.

Thanks.

[Capt. Fran]

You are not required to take a class. You might want to take a celnav class to help you study for your exam, but it isn't a requirement for the oceans endorsement. You just need to satisfy the sea service requirements, then take the exam.

(You are correct that some STCW OICNW CNAV courses do have USCG approval to be used in lieu of exam, but if so, then that certificate can't be used to satisfy the OICNW requirement.)

You ask what is the best and most efficient route to upgrade to oceans. Purely subjective advice, but I would take a course, especially if you have not studied cnav before. Typical USCG approved OICNW level cnav courses are 2 weeks in length.

Also, make sure you either take a class that covers the Sailings, or you study them on your own, as those will also be on your exam.

[CaptKrunch]

Ok, so that changes things some. I thought the class was a necessary evil for STCW purposes. I am a little bit familiar with cnav but still feel that I want a class to help out with the testing. Same for the sailings. I can do those but have never worked out Great Circle so probably would need some help there.

I guess the plan would be to apply (again) for upgrade, take the class and then test on approval. Do you test at the class on the 1600ton level? Can the test I take at the Coast Guard cover all licenses? I guess what I'm driving at is, an Oceans endorsment covers all bases (like ARPA, VSO, GMDSS, etc.) or is it separate?

[Capt. Fran]

Hey CK, the sailings aren't too bad, actually, if you study Bowditch and then do a whole bunch of practice problems from Capt. Joe or Lapware.

When you say, "Do you test at the class on the 1600ton level?", I assume you are asking that if someone takes the class then submits the cert in lieu of celnav exam for the oceans increase in scope, is the test in the class at the 1600 ton level. Yes, but the interesting thing is that the 1600 ton and 3rd Mate exams are the same modules. (Please don't ask me why you can take the cnav course in lieu of for 1600, but NOT 3rd mate, if they are the same modules. It is some kind of coastie reasoning.)

Next question you asked, "Can the test I take at the Coast Guard cover all licenses?" Nope. It will only cover you up to 2nd Mate. You will need to test again for Ch Mate / Master level, but you will also have to take all the MGT level STCW courses first, including a different cnav.

And finally, does "an Oceans endorsment covers all bases (like ARPA, VSO, GMDSS, etc.) or is it separate?"
Well, the Oceans endorsement is just that. It is considered an increase in scope only (i.e. lets you cross the 200nm line). The other sweet little acronyms you mention are separate endorsements:
ARPA: Automatic Radar Plotting Aids. This course is typically 4 days long and is taken after you have taken a 5 day Original Radar Observer course (or 1 day refresher). You don't have to take this class, but if you don't, your MMC will say that you are restricted to non-ARPA equipped vessels.
GMDSS: Global Maritime Distress & Safety System. This course (also known in certain circles as 'that bugger' course - or worse) is typically 2 weeks long and like ARPA, not a requirement for any license, but again, if you don't have the cert (and associated FCC license), your MMC will say that you are restricted to non-GMDSS equipped vessels.
VSO: Vessel Security Officer. Again, not required, unless you are actually designated as VSO.

That help?

[CaptKrunch]

Yes it does...a little. I guess what has had me confused was believing that you actually test during the class instead of at the Coast Guard but only for lower level licenses. Not sure if what I just typed makes any sense. I want an Oceans endorsement and you say the class is not needed? I have Joe's, Murphy books, Lapware, old Houston Marine books.

I am aware that you have to test again at the Management level and for that you must also take Adv. Cnav (also know of ARPA, GMDSS, VSO, BRM, etc...and have them) just wasn't sure if I could test once for both 1600ton as well as 3rd/2nd or if there was an OICNW requirement for the class.

Sailings are the least of my worries...just wrapping my head around the requirements tends to blow my mind at times!!

Thanks for all the help.

[Capt. Fran]

No sweat. Feel free to shoot me a PM if you need more guidance.
- Fran

[bmag]

I hope it's ok to insert a question or two into the thread. I've been working near coastal and also need to add oceans to my 1600-ton Master. Thanks to all for the above info.
My questions concern the classes. I accept the fact that the cows would be home long before I completed any self-study so I'm going to take a class.
1) Is the 80-hour class offered by some places (Crawford) the same course as the 120-hour course offered elsewhere (mptusa). It seems a little odd that they would each satisfy the CG requirements but the course descriptions indicate that they do
2) Does anybody know of a school anywhere in the states where I could possibly do this before Christmas? or shortly after.

Soonest I can find is a 15 day class at MPT Jan 4 or a 10 day class at SUNY Maritime starting the 11th.

Thanks

[Capt. Fran]

Here's the master list of USCG approved CelNav courses - most of the schools listed have websites.

But, I've heard great things about Starpath Navigation if you don't care about USCG approval.

[10talents]

I hope it's ok to insert a question or two into the thread. I've been working near coastal and also need to add oceans to my 1600-ton Master. Thanks to all for the above info.
My questions concern the classes. I accept the fact that the cows would be home long before I completed any self-study so I'm going to take a class.
1) Is the 80-hour class offered by some places (Crawford) the same course as the 120-hour course offered elsewhere (mptusa). It seems a little odd that they would each satisfy the CG requirements but the course descriptions indicate that they do
2) Does anybody know of a school anywhere in the states where I could possibly do this before Christmas? or shortly after.

Soonest I can find is a 15 day class at MPT Jan 4 or a 10 day class at SUNY Maritime starting the 11th.

Thanks

I took CG's class at MPT last year and had the same question as you. I was told the additional days were for assessments that were not offered at the 10 day classes. Not sure where you can get it done b'4 Christmas. Any questions about the MPT class you can PM me.

[bmag]

Thanks for the replies and the link.

http://www.uscg.mil/nmc/training/cn.pdf

For those interested there's a variety of schedules and prices and levels of convenience. All include sextant and are STCW approved

SUNY Maritime is 15 days starting 25 Jan $1500

Crawford in Seattle is 10 days Feb 8- 19th for $800

MPT IN Lauderdale is 15 days starting Jan 4th $1995

Clatsop Community is a real surprise. It's minimum of 60 hours up to whatever you need to finish. You can start whenever you want and go at your own pace until finished. Price is $347 !!!!! Closed Dec 17 Til Jan 10. Open again Jan 11th.

I've called from that list before and have always bypassed Clatsop C.C. for whatever reason. Any feedback about them?

[Shellback]

Thanks for the replies and the link.

http://www.uscg.mil/nmc/training/cn.pdf

For those interested there's a variety of schedules and prices and levels of convenience. All include sextant and are STCW approved

SUNY Maritime is 15 days starting 25 Jan $1500

Crawford in Seattle is 10 days Feb 8- 19th for $800

MPT IN Lauderdale is 15 days starting Jan 4th $1995

Clatsop Community is a real surprise. It's minimum of 60 hours up to whatever you need to finish. You can start whenever you want and go at your own pace until finished. Price is $347 !!!!! Closed Dec 17 Til Jan 10. Open again Jan 11th.

I've called from that list before and have always bypassed Clatsop C.C. for whatever reason. Any feedback about them?

I'm taking AFF at Clatsop this week...It's a nice campus, small and personable...The instructor for the course is very qualified and has a really good attitude,which helps..I will be coming back here for more courses, especially at these prices...

[jdcavo]

Here's the master list of USCG approved CelNav courses - most of the schools listed have websites.

But, I've heard great things about Starpath Navigation if you don't care about USCG approval.

Read the approvals carefully. Not all courses are approved for the same thing, make sure the one you pick is approved for what you need. There are no courses approved to substitute for a test needed to go from 3rd Mate N/C to Oceans.

[water]

CapKrunch -

A phone call to L E Fletcher might be worthwhile. They do have celestial and may be flexible in scheduling it.

http://www.ftcc.edu/index.cfm?md=pag...p=home&pid=336

Also, a call to Young Memorial:

http://www.coastguardtraining.com/marine.htm

I've found it is best to call the schools directly. They are frequently slow to update their web sites.

[mke039]

Hey there, I was just skimming this thread. I just upgraded from 1600 NC to Oceans. I did it at NE Maritime in New Bedford for about $800. I took the brutal class, which condenses a 6mo course into 10 days. This gave me the two certificates which I took to the CG. I was then told I needed to retake Rules....which I did. The wags in WV then fucked around for about 3mo....and finally issued my brand new 1600 Oceans Master!
I give high marks to NE Maritime. Their instructor was quite good. Believe me this piece of paper will be the hardest one you will ever earn. Celestial is brutal in the amount of information you will have to process in the time period alotted. If you are half way intelligent, or more to the point, diligent, you will do it.
I am now getting my GMDSS and ARPA, as well as advanced Medical, HAZWHATEVER ect. all paid for by my new company.
Good luck and smooth sailing!

[mke039]

Oh yea, I was interested in this thread because I just need a few more days as Master to get my 3rd Unlimited...what does that feel like to finally be 'Unlimited' anyway?

[Jeffrox]

Oh yea, I was interested in this thread because I just need a few more days as Master to get my 3rd Unlimited...what does that feel like to finally be 'Unlimited' anyway?

It's like a spoon full of Paragoric....

[stevefoster]

Oh yea, I was interested in this thread because I just need a few more days as Master to get my 3rd Unlimited...what does that feel like to finally be 'Unlimited' anyway?

I can now claim legitimately that I am smarter than a fifth grader.........