1600ton Mate oceans to 3rd Mate Unl

[Rocket187um]

Enlighten me.

I have a 1600 ton Mate oceans and tested in 2007. According to the Deck Exam guide page 1-3 (#4) I do not need to Retest except for Flashing light.

(4) Applicants who tested for a Mate 500/1600 GRT Oceans license AFTER 02/01/02 may apply for a Third Mate license
after acquiring the sea service required by 46 CFR 11.402 and 11.407. Except for visual signaling, no further examination

is required. (See Note 4 and NMC Guidance Document 02-05)


Is this the case?

Thank you for your help
RS

[Azimuth]

I can't say with regard for a Mate, but I do know that NMC is requiring 1600t Masters to test in all the modules (7 if you are taking oceans) for 3rd unlimited.

Based on your reference it sure sounds like you don't need to test. I guess that just follows bureaucratic logic - no need to test limited mate > unlimited mate but limited master > unlimited mate requires a second round of testing? - go figure!

[mtskier]

Hi,
I think that you are correct based on the date that you tested. Both you and I satisfied the OICNW requirements of STCW, etc. Others that have been posting with regard to their having to take the full set of exams are doing so because their first set of exams predated the onset of this standard - man, that's almost enough double speak to be in the actual CFR's...yikes
MTSKIER

[Capt. Fran]

Hi,
...that's almost enough double speak to be in the actual CFR's...yikes
MTSKIER

MT Skier, don't tease me. You know I love it when you speak regulations.

[Capt. Fran]

Sorry, got side-tracked. Nope, Flashing Light notwithstanding, you won't have to test again for 1600 Mate to 3rd Mate for exactly the reason you mention. Well done!

[Azimuth]

Interesting. 1600 Mate to 3rd Mate - no test. 1600 ton Master to 3rd mate - Test?

[New3M]

Gotta love the CFR's!

[jdcavo]

Interesting. 1600 Mate to 3rd Mate - no test. 1600 ton Master to 3rd mate - Test?

Yes, depending on how and when you got to Master 1600. If you got there via Mate 500/1600 AFTER 2/1/02, there is no test because you've already taken a test in all required subjects. If you got to Master 1600 by another route, there are still gaps between what is on the new Mate 500/1600/3rd Mate exam and what you've taken in the past.

Your question is valid, and I will suggest to NMC that they review all ptahs to Master 500/1600 and close any gaps. The likely result if they follow up is that there will be additional exam material to go from Master 200 to Master 500/1600.

[Rocket187um]

Thank you all very much. I Just completed the Flashing light and am waiting for my new MMC!

R-

[djackson]

I am in the same situation; Now: Master 1600 GRT (Oceans) tested in 1995. I have now applied for 3rd Unltd and have been told by NMC that I need to do OICNW evaluations. Does this made any sense to anyone? They quote Policy Letter 01-02 as the relevent rule. But I looked it up and it says:

Policy Letter 01-02, Page 1-6 states:
"d. An applicant who holds either a 500GRT or a 1,600 GRT license and STCW certification that were based on service that began on or after 1 August 1998 and wishes to apply for a third mate's license must acquire the sea service required by 46 CFR 10.402 and 10.407. No further testing and assessments are required."

Also I looked up 2008 CFR 46, CH. 1, Part 10.407 (c), which states:
"(c) While holding a license as master of ocean or near coastal steam
or motor vessels of not more than 1,600 gross tons, one year of service
as master on vessels of over 200 gross tons operating on ocean or near
coastal waters will qualify the applicant for a license as third mate of
ocean or near coastal steam or motor vessels of any gross tons."

Has anyone else gone through this? I have requested a re-evaluation? Any comments? Thanks

[Jeffrox]

Your service began BEFORE the 1 Aug 1998 date which you quote, I think that's the rub, along with what others have posted concerning the 02/01/02 date.

[djackson]

No, sea time that counts was in last 2 years.

[Jeffrox]

djackson,
I have to admit to not studying this issue but I do read the other posts--the issue about "service" seems to be when you tested and received your license, before or after certain dates, the tests are different "now" compared to "then" when you took your test in 1995 so now they want assesments and or further testing to cover things that weren't covered back in 1995. That's what I get out reading the different posts on this issue. Good luck with your struggle WRT NMC.

[aargh]

I don't have the policy letter in front of me, but I believe that Jeffrox is exactly right. Your original 1600GT license was based on sea service that began before Aug 1, 1998. You tested under the old scheme. I am sure someone else will fill in the blanks, but I am pretty sure you will have to do assessments, and take the new test.

[jdcavo]

I am in the same situation; Now: Master 1600 GRT (Oceans) tested in 1995. I have now applied for 3rd Unltd and have been told by NMC that I need to do OICNW evaluations. Does this made any sense to anyone? They quote Policy Letter 01-02 as the relevent rule. But I looked it up and it says:

Policy Letter 01-02, Page 1-6 states:
"d. An applicant who holds either a 500GRT or a 1,600 GRT license and STCW certification that were based on service that began on or after 1 August 1998 and wishes to apply for a third mate's license must acquire the sea service required by 46 CFR 10.402 and 10.407. No further testing and assessments are required."

Also I looked up 2008 CFR 46, CH. 1, Part 10.407 (c), which states:
"(c) While holding a license as master of ocean or near coastal steam
or motor vessels of not more than 1,600 gross tons, one year of service
as master on vessels of over 200 gross tons operating on ocean or near
coastal waters will qualify the applicant for a license as third mate of
ocean or near coastal steam or motor vessels of any gross tons."

Has anyone else gone through this? I have requested a re-evaluation? Any comments? Thanks

Your 1600 GRT license was from service before 8/1/98, so para. 11.d. of Enclosure 1 doesn't apply. More simply, you tested for the 1600 license under the "old scheme" where the 1600 GRT had less subjects than 3rd Mate and you did not have to do the OICNW training and assessments. Paragraph 11.d. applies to anyone testing new scheme (combined exam for 500/1600 GRT and 3rd Mate).

You also need to do the OICNW training and assessment. The grandfathering applied to the license you had at the time, not to a raise in grade to 3rd Mate.

[Capt. Fran]

Your 1600 GRT license was from service before 8/1/98, so para. 11.d. of Enclosure 1 doesn't apply.
Paragraph 11.d. applies to anyone testing new scheme (combined exam for 500/1600 GRT and 3rd Mate).
You also need to do the OICNW training and assessment. The grandfathering applied to the license you had at the time, not to a raise in grade to 3rd Mate.

Jim,

I'm confused by your answer and disagree with your conclusion that he has to take the OICNW courses.

If his 1600 GRT license was based on service from before 8/1/98, then why does paragraph 11.d apply? Shouldn't paragraph 11.c apply?

11.c "..., an applicant who holds either a 500 GRT or 1600 GRT license and STCW certification that were issued based on service before 1 August 1998 and who now applies for a third mate's license must:
1) Acquire sea service...
2) Complete an assessment of skills; and
3) Pass the written examination."

No training (i.e. no OICNW courses) required.

Fran

[jdcavo]

Jim,

I'm confused by your answer and disagree with your conclusion that he has to take the OICNW courses.

If his 1600 GRT license was based on service from before 8/1/98, then why does paragraph 11.d apply? Shouldn't paragraph 11.c apply?

The reference to a 500 GRT and 1600 GRT license are for Mate, not Master. I responded with reservation as I know you or someone else is going to argue that we said "a license..," not a Mate license. It's a valid interpretation, but it's not mine.

[djackson]

I made a mistake on my posting: My Master 1600GRT was issued Feb 2005, not 1995 as I said in my last posting. I took the "new" test with Terrestrial, etc.

And thanks again for the opinion all, especially Mr. Cavo...its nice to have a expert on the site.

D. Jackson

[Capt Brian]

I have a 1600 grt Master NC and have applied for 3rd Mate NC (delaying the celestial class - ugh!) on June 1st. My evaluator (Susan Weisenberg) is "awaiting additional info", I was told this is an "internal request". Hopefully, in the very near future, she gets the info she has question on and gets it processed. Maybe she needs to drop Mr. Cavo an email to get clarification since now one else knows at NMC.

[Capt. Fran]

The reference to a 500 GRT and 1600 GRT license are for Mate, not Master. ... It's a valid interpretation, but it's not mine.

Ah, OK. I didn't know that NMC is interpreting it to mean Mate license. Huh, interesting, and unfortunately, not in a good way for a 1600 Master.

Thanks for the insight, and it explains some of the things I've been hearing from folks with applications at NMC.