Onboard control sheets for chiefmate/master upgrade

**dptom** · April 20th, 2009, 04:16 PM

In addition to the classes I will take at the star center, which on board assessments/control sheets will I need to get in order to upgrade to Chief Mate?

Here is a link of the control sheets that I have had the old man sign off on, but I think that some of these are redundant to the ones I will receive after each class I have taken at the star center. I am sure I didn't need to get all these signed but thought better safe then sorry.

http://www.uscg.mil/nmc/marpers/pag/04-02.pdf

Within that pdf though it mentioned that sign offs were required. Anyone recently submitted paperwork for Chief Mate unlimited? And if so did you submit the above control sheets. There is around 60 or so sign offs. Is this right?

**mike173** · April 20th, 2009, 08:10 PM

I recently submitted mine in Dec 08.

I started taking my classes in Nov 05. (Yes, it took me 3 years). Back then, the STAR Center issued a class certificate and each of individual control sheets, which made my package to the REC very thick. Now they just issue a certificate, and the completed control sheets are listed on the certificate.

To my knowledge, there are no required on board assessments. I certainly did not submit any, and though my application is not yet approved, I haven't been told any are necessary. It is my understanding that the celestial control sheets may be completed on board. However, I found the class a good refresher. Unless your celestial is very strong, I highly recommend the class.

One note that I wrote about on another thread: You must now submit your flashing light certificate before the application will be approved. I learned this the hard way. That is the hold-up on my approval.

Good luck

**Capt Brian** · April 20th, 2009, 09:43 PM

To the best of my knowledge, this policy letter is not "valid" from what I was told. I upgraded to 1600 Master back in 2007 and NMC did not request that I complete the assesments as stated in 04-02. I may be wrong though. Mr. Cavo, shed any light on this policy letter?

Brian

**Capt. Lee** · April 20th, 2009, 10:59 PM

Tom,

I have heard that the certificate is good for the celestial, but the approval letter for celestial does not say anything about the control sheets. So I plan on getting the celestial control sheets completed for all the celestial sights. As far as I know all the rest of the control sheets are covered through the classes.

**New3M** · April 21st, 2009, 09:10 AM

I'm a long way away from worrying about this, but in the STAR center list of classes, under the CM/Master upgrade classes it says:

"...This program will complete ALL 53 Control Sheet assessments of the training requirements for STCW. Course completion certificates do not expire."

On another note - since the courses do not expire, I've been told that I should start taking those classes as soon as I can, so when I (hopefully) get to that level, the upgrade goes fairly quickly and smoothly. Thoughts on this? I used to hear about guys that would take 8 months off of sailing to take all of these classes at once, but then they end up losing their spot in the rotation and it's harder to get back out. So is it a good idea to start taking them now?

**Capt. Lee** · April 21st, 2009, 10:39 AM

I started taking my Chief Mate Classes soon after I got my 3rd Mate's License.

**todd.harter** · April 21st, 2009, 03:30 PM

Now I am thoroughly confused! Mr. Cavo has stated several times that the assessments must be done "exactly as stated" on the sheet. How is that the assesments that say "On a Ship Underway" (with no option for - "or in a full-mission lab") are done in a classroom? Are the Star classrooms onboard a ship that gets underway? How many people's assessments have been rejected or even thoroughly reviewed?

**Anabasis** · April 21st, 2009, 05:52 PM

If you take all of the STAR center classes (including Celnav), you won't need any onboard assessments. You will just need your 360 days of seatime as an officer as well as the classes. You can opt out of the celnav at school, but then you must have a qualified person on the ship sign off on those assessment sheets.

I went through this process over 2 vacations, spending roughly a month each time home to get my classes done. The key is to apply early to get into certain classes that have limited size (anything with the simulator is usually limited to 6 people or so). You can block them out pretty well and if you are on 90 or 120 day rotations, you can get it done fairly quickly. I wouldn't recommend you do them all at once, but it is possible.

I am suprised that you took classes before getting your 2/M license, I didn't think you were allowed to do that, but then again things might have changed.

To apply I just submitted all of my upgradecertificates (they stopped issuing the control sheets after my 1st round of classes), seatime, radar, and flashing light and was cleared for my test. This was before the new system, so it would be best to go to an REC to make sure you have all the right forms.

JCA

**jdcavo** · April 21st, 2009, 06:02 PM

Originally Posted by todd.harter

Now I am thoroughly confused! Mr. Cavo has stated several times that the assessments must be done "exactly as stated" on the sheet. How is that the assesments that say "On a Ship Underway" (with no option for - "or in a full-mission lab") are done in a classroom? Are the Star classrooms onboard a ship that gets underway? How many people's assessments have been rejected or even thoroughly reviewed?

Maybe you're confused because you're looking for inaccuracy and inconsistency where there isn't any.

My past comments were in the context of a ship's officer doing them on the vessel they are employed on, without specific approval from NMC to deviate from the criteria. This is not the case with STAR Center or other schools. As provided in the various policy letters or NVICs, there is an option to use alternative assessments with prior approval from NMC. As part of the course approval process, STAR Center obtained that approval.

Read the STAR Center approvals. They almost all say that the assessments in that particular course are equivalent to the national guidelines. In contrast, if a school's approval says in conjunction with a course they can sign a Control Sheet, the assessments are identical and the school is regularly audited to ascertain compliance with the assessment criteria.

**jdcavo** · April 21st, 2009, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by Capt Brian

To the best of my knowledge, this policy letter is not "valid" from what I was told. I upgraded to 1600 Master back in 2007 and NMC did not request that I complete the assessments as stated in 04-02. I may be wrong though. Mr. Cavo, shed any light on this policy letter?

Brian

We have yet to prescribe specific training and assessment requirements for all engineering licenses, and Master 500/1600 GRT.

**dptom** · April 21st, 2009, 09:12 PM

Thanks for the heads up with the flashing light. I will take this class this time home and submit in Miami. Should be done with everything at the end of July! What a relief.

**todd.harter** · April 23rd, 2009, 02:45 PM

Thanks for the clarification Mr. Cavo. I understand now. I guess I just picked the wrong school, and will have get in touch with the STAR center. A note to anyone working solely with foreign officers who cannot sign off assessments - you might consider STAR rather than MITAGS.