question protest

[waterman74]

hello everybody, great forum. just took my 1600t nc chartwork test today and failed by one question. i protested the question.

it asked what was the set and drift between 0520 and 0600

the correct answer was 358* 1.2 knots

since the question asked for the drift from 0520 to 0600 i chose the answer

358* .8 knots -since the time was 2/3 of an hour.

anyway, i protested the question, since i demonstrated the ability to do the problem and only because the question was unclear did i get the question wrong. anyone have any luck on protesting questions? and does anyone have an idea what my chances are?

Thanks.

[New3M]

I would say you probably have no chance - since the correct answer is correct, and the question isn't unclear.

You forgot that drift is ALWAYS measured in knots, which is nautical miles per HOUR - not per time period of the question. They put that answer in there simply to catch people that do that.

0.8 for 40 minutes = 1.2 knots for one hour.

Sorry!

[Capt. Lee]

I have to agree with 3M. I would say no chance of getting that one over turned.

[New3M]

And anyway, the protesting of questions is mostly bullshit anyway. I failed the near-coastal test by one question. It was a set and drift question, which, if you plot it, comes out as the wrong answer, and if you do it mathematically with sin and cos and all that comes out to be exactly between two answers (the right one and the one I picked). When I went for the retake, I had the exact same question! This time I knew the answer, but still protested it because it's a bogus question - but since I didn't need the protest to pass the test, the guy literally took it and threw it in the trash can. Oh well!

[Robert]

3M is correct. You have no chance in that appeal. As pointed out set and drift is always in knots which is always calculated based on an hour.

[jdcavo]

And anyway, the protesting of questions is mostly bullshit anyway. I failed the near-coastal test by one question. It was a set and drift question, which, if you plot it, comes out as the wrong answer, and if you do it mathematically with sin and cos and all that comes out to be exactly between two answers (the right one and the one I picked). When I went for the retake, I had the exact same question! This time I knew the answer, but still protested it because it's a bogus question - but since I didn't need the protest to pass the test, the guy literally took it and threw it in the trash can. Oh well!

About 10% of protests are awarded credit. That number is actually higher than it appears when you consider that it is only a "protest" when the mariner has failed the exam by no more than 2 questions. The mariner knows they failed by 1 or 2, and has had a chance to review their answer and look up anything that might help prepare the protest. In other words, the majority of protests are nothing to lose fishing trips.

The REC should not have thrown your protest in the garbage because you passed or if you fail by more than 2 questions). It is then called a "Comment" and is supposed to be forwarded to this office for review, the only difference in the review is that because it is not a "protest" it doesn't require an immediate answer and doesn't have to be faxed or e-mailed from the REC, once a week or once a month is OK. The RECs should be sending them here regardless, but some may not be. In any event, it just looks bad to have done that in fromt of you, it's suggesting we don't care about the quality of the question.

[New3M]

About 10% of protests are awarded credit. That number is actually higher than it appears when you consider that it is only a "protest" when the mariner has failed the exam by no more than 2 questions. The mariner knows they failed by 1 or 2, and has had a chance to review their answer and look up anything that might help prepare the protest. In other words, the majority of protests are nothing to lose fishing trips.

The REC should not have thrown your protest in the garbage because you passed or if you fail by more than 2 questions). It is then called a "Comment" and is supposed to be forwarded to this office for review, the only difference in the review is that because it is not a "protest" it doesn't require an immediate answer and doesn't have to be faxed or e-mailed from the REC, once a week or once a month is OK. The RECs should be sending them here regardless, but some may not be. In any event, it just looks bad to have done that in fromt of you, it's suggesting we don't care about the quality of the question.

You say that mariners are supposed to be able to file a protest after they found out the results of the test, and they can look up information to help their case? We were told when we sat that we had to hand in the protest when we handed in the test, and they only looked at them if we failed the test by one or two questions. The only information we could use was whatever argument we could create at that point.

I thought it was supposed to be a comment too, when I handed it in, but the guy told me that because I got a 100 on the test, it didn't matter, and I actually watched him throw it away! But, I passed, and I didn't really care!

[Jeffrox]

I had the exact experiences as New 3 Mate's story. Seattle REC, old site on the base back in about '98. Ditto everything he wrote. Maybe this is how it is more often than not regardless of what the head office directives are.

[waterman74]

well, lo and behold, i called the lady today and she got an answer saying i got credit, and passed the module.

I can only hope that she is correct, and actually did get something stating i did pass. I mean it's not a huge deal, i just don't want to have to make the 4.5 hour drive back down to retest. now that i remember, drift is always in knots, which = nautical miles per hour. since none of the answers had "knts" behind the numerical value for drift, maybe that is why they gave it to me. Anyway, just goes to show you that it doesn't hurt to try.

maybe jdcavo can elaborate...don't get me failed please.

thanks to everyone that took the time to post. appreciate it!

[New3M]

Well then...congratulations!

[jdcavo]

You say that mariners are supposed to be able to file a protest after they found out the results of the test, and they can look up information to help their case?

You can protest after you have reviewed your test results. But you can only do it at the time you see your rersults, you can't leave the room.

There is one exception, maritime academies. It's not always possible to grade on the spot 100+ exams, so academy examinees have to protest during the exam. It's the trade-off for being among the only mariners who have the Coast Guard come to them to give the test, and the only ones allowed to take the exam while still working on the required training (taking the exams before graduation).

[New3M]

Ahh ok that makes more sense now. They didn't grade our tests at all when we sat at school, but I can see the reasoning behind it. I thought you were saying that you could file a protest after looking up information to help you.

[Moguldan]

You can protest after you have reviewed your test results. But you can only do it at the time you see your rersults, you can't leave the room.

There is one exception, maritime academies. It's not always possible to grade on the spot 100+ exams, so academy examinees have to protest during the exam. It's the trade-off for being among the only mariners who have the Coast Guard come to them to give the test, and the only ones allowed to take the exam while still working on the required training (taking the exams before graduation).

Thank you for clarifying on the difference with academies.

My question now becomes, if an academy student must retake one or two failed modules at the REC do the “academy rules apply” or can they stay in the exam room and then potentially protest after grading? If they chose to go to the REC in person instead of testing with their class what rules then apply.

Some background on me. I test for my 3rd engineer’s license next month. I am graduating from Great Lakes Maritime Academy; I am new to the forum.


Thank you.

Dan

[jdcavo]

Thank you for clarifying on the difference with academies.

My question now becomes, if an academy student must retake one or two failed modules at the REC do the “academy rules apply” or can they stay in the exam room and then potentially protest after grading? If they chose to go to the REC in person instead of testing with their class what rules then apply.

Some background on me. I test for my 3rd engineer’s license next month. I am graduating from Great Lakes Maritime Academy; I am new to the forum.

If you test at the REC, the normal rules apply. They should grade while you wait and give you a chance to review. At the academy, you can't wait for them to gade, protest at the time of the exam (at the risk of sounding like an old $#@%, when I took my 3rd exam I had to wait 3 weeks for my exams to be graded in Oklahoma).

Good luck on your exams.

[Moguldan]

Thank you for your answer. Things went almost exactly how you described. I passed all my sections with flying colors the first time around. Luckily I didn’t actually need to protest any questions; however just having the knowledge of what would happen was a great stress reliever.
Thank you again Mr. Cavo
Dan
P.S. Just so everyone knows every GLMA Engineer passed there exams this year. Wooot