Crazy Question...

**john1218** · November 21st, 2011, 04:51 AM

Ouch. You really don't like them do you? haha, have you had a bad experience in the past with Sandy Hook? And I know this is just based on my research, but it seems like upon completion of the apprenticeship they would want you to have the unlimited masters. The only reason why I say this is because from discussing it with others, Sandy Hook has taken recent maritime graduates with just the Third Mates. And not that I am downplaying that at all, a 3M is a huge accomplishment, but the requirements for an Unlimited Masters would be extremely difficult to obtain even if you started working (say as a deckhand) right out of the Academy. As according to the Sandy Hook Pilots website, you can't apply for an apprenticeship after the age of 27.

Basically, that is why I was trying to compare a license that is comparable to the Third Mates...

**Jolly Tar** · November 21st, 2011, 05:48 AM

I didn't know Sandy Hook DOCKED anything? My experience slinging barges in NYC was that they just brought ships up to Stapleton or Bayridge and the Moran or McAllister Docking Masters were the ones to take them pierside. I could be wrong though.

As a FEDERAL Pilot working Civil Service as I was required to have a 1600T Master AND an Master AGT Inland (minimum). I sat for pilotage in Miami after acquiring my trips - 14 question local knowledge test and draw the chart on a piece of onionskin with the landmass silhouettes. RITI.com is GREAT for chart silhouettes. I meet them at the sea buoy, dock them and vice versa.

If I had to guess, deckhands in NYC have to be making around $285.00-$300.00/Day by now and that could depend on a tankerman's endorsement. I am waiting on response from a deckhand working in NY and will post his reply as soon as I get it.

Who has GOOD experiences with Sandy Hook pilots outside of their customers? They are the FIRST to bitch about ANYTHING and THEY are the ones with 3 or 4 boats assisting them to an ANCHORAGE for Christ's sake. Me on other hand, I'd have an underpowered tug and a balls deep barge, hugging the channel side but somehow I'm IN THE WAY?

*UPDATE*

From a deckhand who works for KSEA: OS about 220-270. AB- 250-325 a Tankerman's Endorsement would add more

**john1218** · November 21st, 2011, 06:48 AM

Hahaha thanks Jolly. I appreciate the input! I guess not too many ppl like them!

**kfj** · November 21st, 2011, 07:01 AM

They yelled at us one night because we met a VLCC with 3 tugs at bridge and never made a security call. Vessel traffic never informed us as we checked in. Good times

**RichMadden** · November 22nd, 2011, 09:25 PM

As per www.sandyhookpilots.com :

"The Sandy Hook Pilots selection process is initiated each evenly numbered year, generally commencing in February, with an application submission date in April, and a process completion date by October. Ads are placed in maritime work journals and with maritime school alumni associations. Applications are sent upon request when the process begins.

The New Jersey Maritime & Docking Pilot Commission and the Board of Commissioners of Pilots of the State of New York are seeking applicants for the state maritime pilot apprenticeship program with the United New York and New Jersey Sandy Hook Pilots' Benevolent Associations. The program, which is a prerequisite to a ship pilots' license in either state, is open to any United States citizen not less than the age of 18 and not more than 27 by April 15, who can meet certain physical requirements and has attained a Bachelor's Degree from an accredited institution BY JUNE 30TH OF THE YEAR OF APPLICATION."

As it has been explained to me in the past, no license is required to enter the apprentice program, but a bachelor's degree of some form is required. I've known a number of people being accepted into the apprentice program with a 3rd Mate's license from one of the maritime academies. It surprises me that no license is required and that the age is capped at 27 - thus virtually prohibiting someone with a Master's license and the associated experience from being allowed into the program. That having been said, how hard is it with a 2000' wide channel? Cue the naysayers and everyone discussing coming in the South way with a loaded tanker.......true, true.

**jdcavo** · November 23rd, 2011, 05:11 AM

Originally Posted by john1218

Plain and simple: If I were to start as a deckhand on a tug (1 week on 1 week off) tomorrow, in 4 years what would be the highest licenses/ endorsements I could receive if I were looking to make an apprentice position to become a Harbor Pilot. Let's just say I didn't have any sea time prior to starting.

From looking online, I see that I would be qualified to go for the Master Inland, AB. Could I possibly have any pilot endorsements?

Thanks for anyone willing to shed some light on my question!

- John

It depends on the routes the tug works on. Add that to your question and I can give an approximate answer. Also, by "in 4 years" do you mean 4 calendar years, which on a week on/week off boat would be 2 (calendar) years on the boat?

**cappy208** · November 23rd, 2011, 06:01 AM

Originally Posted by RichMadden

Cue the naysayers and everyone discussing coming in the South way with a loaded tanker.......true, true.

Sammatta? U no like the tip of the hook, summer time, fog, and little boats? Or redbank reach and ward pt bend on a dark snowy night?!!!!

**RichMadden** · November 23rd, 2011, 08:28 AM

Originally Posted by cappy208

Or redbank reach and ward pt bend on a dark snowy night?!!!!

Funny, I WAS imagining it on a snowy dark afternoon.........

**john1218** · November 23rd, 2011, 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by jdcavo

It depends on the routes the tug works on. Add that to your question and I can give an approximate answer. Also, by "in 4 years" do you mean 4 calendar years, which on a week on/week off boat would be 2 (calendar) years on the boat?

Well I was originally thinking 4 calendar years. If I did a week on week off job, 12hr days would be 1.5 sea days/ calendar day according to the coast guard

**Capt. Phoenix** · November 24th, 2011, 03:59 AM

Originally Posted by john1218

Well I was originally thinking 4 calendar years. If I did a week on week off job, 12hr days would be 1.5 sea days/ calendar day according to the coast guard

In 4 calendar tests you will have 3 years if sea time. That is enough for your first mates license. I'd you want sandy hook pilots dont bother. It won't help you get the job to have experience. Do you have the required college degree?

**john1218** · November 24th, 2011, 06:47 AM

Originally Posted by Capt. Schmitt

In 4 calendar tests you will have 3 years if sea time. That is enough for your first mates license. I'd you want sandy hook pilots dont bother. It won't help you get the job to have experience. Do you have the required college degree?

I do have a Bachelor's Degree. I may be wrong, but I don't believe that is enough time for a first mates license. From what I have found, you need 365 days sea time as a 2/M to be a First Mate. To be a 2/M, you need to be a 3/M for 365 days at sea. Without going through a merchant marine academy, to be a 3/M you need 3 years of sea time.
And those aren't including time to take exams and classes for each license.
From what I have found, I can first get the OUPV (6-Pack), upgrade that to Master. I would need 720 days at sea to take the Near Coastal, which would be more useful working in the NY Harbor.

**Tugboattim** · November 24th, 2011, 07:02 AM

I'm almost sure the coast guard uses 360 days as a 'year' of sea time and also to get Cm you don't have to sail as 2m you just have to 'hold' the license

Sent from my phone using gCaptain app

**john1218** · November 24th, 2011, 07:10 AM

I'm sorry yes, 360 days not 365. And yes I agree that you just have to hold the license. But my point was in 4 years, I wouldn't be able to obtain a 3/M, upgrade to 2/M, then upgrade to CM.

**Capt. Phoenix** · November 24th, 2011, 08:15 AM

I did not say you could get your chief mate license, and there is no such thing as a 'first mate' license. I meant with three years of sea time you can get your first (helpful) mate license. That license is a 500 ton mate... If all your time is harbor time then it will be an inland license.

**john1218** · November 24th, 2011, 08:20 AM

Ohhh im sorry. I misunderstood you. I googled "first mate" and I got redirected to Chief Mate, I just thought they were inter-changeable terms. Thanks again for the info. Happy Thanksgiving everyone

**chgonyer** · November 24th, 2011, 10:12 AM

Think you need to get some time on the water brother, you might not even like the life. It all sounds great on paper, and easy to plan out on paper, another thing all together to do.

Good luck to you, and happy turkeyday to everyone.

**john1218** · November 24th, 2011, 10:19 AM

Originally Posted by chgonyer

Think you need to get some time on the water brother, you might not even like the life. It all sounds great on paper, and easy to plan out on paper, another thing all together to do.

Good luck to you, and happy turkeyday to everyone.

Just applied for my TWIC and sendung the MMC app tomorrow, so we will see!