SUP/MFOW WASTE of TIME 4 Newbies!

[SaltySailor]

This to just let anybody with a MMC endorsed with OS/Wiper to not even waste your time or money trying to ship out with them.


The MFOW has very few wiper positions even come open, but they seem to be filled in no particular order by applicants, as the union port agent told me when I registered: "When I do get a wiper position I just start calling applicants, if you don't answer on the first few rings, I just hang up. The first person to answer and accept the job gets it"

Way too much like a lottery to me. I can't wait around hoping for some call from the MFOW that may never come.

In fact, it seems the Marine Firemen's Union doesn't even seem to have all that many QMED FOWT jobs.

If on the other hand you have electrician, Jr. engineer, and reefer eng. plus RFPEW, give the MFOW a call ASAP!

The SUP doesn't even have any OS jobs. You must first take a RFPNW course, get lookout duties only in your MMC go to some other company, do 60 days minimum, get your assessments signed off and then get the actual STCW-95 RFPNW endorsement in your MMC so you're now a S.T.O.S. And maybe then you can get a job with the SUP.

Just thought I would share that info.

[Navy SWO]

The SUP doesn't even have any OS jobs. You must first take a RFPNW course, get lookout duties only in your MMC go to some other company, do 60 days minimum, get your assessments signed off and then get the actual STCW-95 RFPNW endorsement in your MMC so you're now a S.T.O.S. And maybe then you can get a job with the SUP.

Salty some of what you say is true, however here is the other side to this coin....

I'm an AB in the SUP and I can tell you the SUP absolutely ships OS jobs. I just got off a ship and worked with three Ordinary's that had never been on a ship before. Here's the deal, the only jobs an Ordinary can get with the SUP are on MSC contracted vessels until they get the RFPNW. Then they become an STOS and can ship with APL. So your right you have to go to another company (in this case MSC contracted ship) to get your RFPNW before you can ship as an STOS BUT you are with SUP during that time.

The RFPNW hurdle is actually made easier by shipping with the union. You only need 60 days of watchstanding vs. 180 days so thats a smokin deal. You need three weeks of MSC schooling in San Diego to get on the MSC ships. The union paid for my school, hotel and food. They sent the Ordinary's to the RFPNW simulator class so they got their assesements signed off there, they just needed to stand the watches.

The reason they call is because there are never enough people with the MSC training in the halls. They do put the jobs on the board but since they can't fill the job this way they end up calling. This is because there aren't many of us and the jobs aren't on a regular schedule like the commercial ships another reason the MSC trained people aren't in the hall. All you do is let them know you are ready to ship and then follow up periodically.

As for MFOW your comments about the Electrician, QMED and Jr. are correct, they are in demand. It is tough to get a wiper job because there is only one wiper on an MSC contracted ship (at least the one I was on) compared to three Ordinary's.

In summary, if you want to ship with the SUP or MFOW entry level then the first step is to get them to send you to the MSC training, then keep in front of the port agent (either in person or on the phone.) It will be easier to ship as an Ordinary and probably a better career move long term to ship as a Wiper. IMHO...

Good Luck !!

[SaltySailor]

Salty some of what you say is true, however here is the other side to this coin....

I'm an AB in the SUP and I can tell you the SUP absolutely ships OS jobs. I just got off a ship and worked with three Ordinary's that had never been on a ship before. Here's the deal, the only jobs an Ordinary can get with the SUP are on MSC contracted vessels until they get the RFPNW. Then they become an STOS and can ship with APL. So your right you have to go to another company (in this case MSC contracted ship) to get your RFPNW before you can ship as an STOS BUT you are with SUP during that time.

The RFPNW hurdle is actually made easier by shipping with the union. You only need 60 days of watchstanding vs. 180 days so thats a smokin deal. You need three weeks of MSC schooling in San Diego to get on the MSC ships. The union paid for my school, hotel and food. They sent the Ordinary's to the RFPNW simulator class so they got their assesements signed off there, they just needed to stand the watches.

The reason they call is because there are never enough people with the MSC training in the halls. They do put the jobs on the board but since they can't fill the job this way they end up calling. This is because there aren't many of us and the jobs aren't on a regular schedule like the commercial ships another reason the MSC trained people aren't in the hall. All you do is let them know you are ready to ship and then follow up periodically.

As for MFOW your comments about the Electrician, QMED and Jr. are correct, they are in demand. It is tough to get a wiper job because there is only one wiper on an MSC contracted ship (at least the one I was on) compared to three Ordinary's.

In summary, if you want to ship with the SUP or MFOW entry level then the first step is to get them to send you to the MSC training, then keep in front of the port agent (either in person or on the phone.) It will be easier to ship as an Ordinary and probably a better career move long term to ship as a Wiper. IMHO...

Good Luck !!

Thanks for the info, but I have all my MSC cert's. Yep. Took 'em in San Diego. At my own expense.

I have all the certificates directly from MSC (not from that rip-off school TRL which uses the Navy/MSC school facilities). I went to the MFOW and SUP Union Hall in Los Angeles.

The MFOW was as described above and the SUP refused to register me as an OS.

Maybe I should complain to the SUP HQ in SF?

[seadog6608]

Salty, I used to sail AB with SUP on the LMSR's. The MSC training that Navy SWO described is class specific. That means they are specifically for that type of ship only. Regular MSC training FF, DC etc isn't good enough for this job. Hope this helps.
Oh, another reason both those unions wind up calling people for the aforementioned jobs is that 1. The A & B books won't take them at all. They won't takethe training and consider the contracts beneath them. 2. A lot of the people on those jobs don't live near a union hall and only take these jobs. I lived in Louisiana when I worked there. It was a little hard for me to show up for job calls.

[SaltySailor]

Salty, I used to sail AB with SUP on the LMSR's. The MSC training that Navy SWO described is class specific. That means they are specifically for that type of ship only. Regular MSC training FF, DC etc isn't good enough for this job. Hope this helps.
Oh, another reason both those unions wind up calling people for the aforementioned jobs is that 1. The A & B books won't take them at all. They won't takethe training and consider the contracts beneath them. 2. A lot of the people on those jobs don't live near a union hall and only take these jobs. I lived in Louisiana when I worked there. It was a little hard for me to show up for job calls.

Thanks again for the info, but I had checked ahead of time with the MFOW including the VP, Mr. O' Brian and I was told exactly what courses I needed to take which I did.

As far as I am concerned the SUP/MFOW are more of an "exclusive" club than a union. The A and B books only want to ship Matson and APL jobs. So that leaves the crumbs which are MSC ships if you're lucky.

I'll stick with the SIU. They might not have the best payrates, but they have what, 200 deep-sea ships plus almost 20 more on the Great Lakes vs, what, maybe 20 ships total for the SUP/MFOW?

I am sure somebody will flame me for this post, but that's fine. I would rather have just registered SIU and at least took my chances as a C book which are way better than having NO chance with the SUP/MFOW.

[Navy SWO]

Salty,

Because SIU has so many ships I initially tried shipping with them. I paid $350 for physicals and registration then sat in the hall for a week at the holiday time (best time for a newbie to get a job). I quickly realized I would never get a job. C cards are not even allowed to approached the desk until the job is called 8 times. That didn't matter since 5-6 A & B cards approached the desk for each of those jobs. So more ships does not necessarily mean easier to get a job, remember they have more people as well...

Even if you make it to B card with them a B Card that went through Piney Point will always get the job ahead of you. My comments only apply to the Wilmington Hall maybe it's better and/or different at another SIU hall?

[SaltySailor]

Salty,

Because SIU has so many ships I initially tried shipping with them. I paid $350 for physicals and registration then sat in the hall for a week at the holiday time (best time for a newbie to get a job). I quickly realized I would never get a job. C cards are not even allowed to approached the desk until the job is called 8 times. That didn't matter since 5-6 A & B cards approached the desk for each of those jobs. So more ships does not necessarily mean easier to get a job, remember they have more people as well...

Even if you make it to B card with them a B Card that went through Piney Point will always get the job ahead of you. My comments only apply to the Wilmington Hall maybe it's better and/or different at another SIU hall?

Duluth used to be a great hall for shipping on the Lakes. Just a few chairs and never anybody there, it was easy to ship out of, alas Duluth is long gone...

[seadog6608]

I don't know if you are aware, but MM&P has some unlicensed jobs on the Great Lakes, both deck and engineering. Call the office in Cleveland and talk to Capt. Charles Malue 216 776 1667.

[RkyMtn Paul]

In the latest Seafarers Log: Total Shipped Sept 16-Oct 15 2010 Deck: A book 251 B book 139 C 13 Engine A 95 B 89 C 4. This is ALL ports. Same period Registered on Beach. Deck A 545 B 410 C 48. Engine A 245 B 254 C 22.

[edivdp]

Salty have you considered going to work for MSC? I'm not sure if they're hiring entry level ratings but that's how I got started when I got out of the Navy in 1979. The only thing I had on my Z-Card was Machinist. Remember you only need 6 months time to start sitting for all the other engine endorsements.

[Cmannoia]

Can someone tell me the average wait time at an SIU hall? I got my AB, RFPNW, Lifeboat, Safety, etc. and all this cost a fortune, and months of waiting; now I am thinking about SIU in Norfolk VA; before I drop other 350.00 or so, I'd like insight on how long it usually takes to get a ship.

Thanks all...

[Cmannoia]

Does anyone know how long it takes to ship out of the Norfolk SIU hall with a C book? I haven't heard anything bad about them.

[RkyMtn Paul]

No guarantees on anything when shipping union. This is the time of year for newbies. Could be a day, a month, next year. Who knows for sure. IF you do get a gov't ship that offers permanent position, take it and stick with it to get your B book. Then game on. Good luck.

[SaltySailor]

In the latest Seafarers Log: Total Shipped Sept 16-Oct 15 2010 Deck: A book 251 B book 139 C 13 Engine A 95 B 89 C 4. This is ALL ports. Same period Registered on Beach. Deck A 545 B 410 C 48. Engine A 245 B 254 C 22.

What are the stats for the Stew Dept?

Thanks for the info, interesting to see how it breaks down.

[RkyMtn Paul]

pdf from Seafarers website : http://www.seafarers.org/log/LogPDFs/November2010.pdf I think you can only download the current months pdf for viewing. I may be wrong. I never understood the entry department part, and never really paid much attention. It has all 3 seniority, but there are guys that only sail entry. Dunno. Maybe someone at the hall can explain. You can look at the ports to see which is best to ship out of. Doesn't always work, as I almost got stuck in Jax, Fla. And a lot of A books were falling off the board. That was '96, I think. The old union hall location sucked.

[SaltySailor]

I recently checked in with the MFOW in Wilmington, AGAIN NO Wiper jobs at ALL!

In fact, I met a guy that took the same MSC courses as I did back in Sept. 2010 and he's been at the MFOW hall waiting for a wiper job ever since...Oct. Nov. Dec. Jan. and now going into Feb. Well over 4 months and not a wiper gig to be had.

I didn't even bother with the SUP this time as I stand by my earlier statement that the SUP also told me they aren't shipping any OS jobs with the exception of STOS. And Yes, I did inform the port agent that I have all my MSC certs (these are the same ones which MFOW asks for to man up the exact same MSC-contracted ships along with the SUP sailing in the deck dept.).

[Kingrobby]

Appreciate your post but that doesn't seem like anything new in these economic times. I was looking for entry level work off & on for a couple of years and soon realized after speaking to lots of people that it was a bad time to be a OS/Wiper. I was told by both of the SIU halls in Tacoma and Ft Lauderdale that the likely hood of me shipping as an Wiper/OS was pretty remote. Therefore, I decided to do myself a favor and enrolled in a school where I can get a QMED with 5 ratings & RFPEW so that I could actually stand a chance of getting a job. I don't know what your financial situation is, but is it worth it to do nothing and most likely get nothing or spend some money and make yourself more marketable? My $0.02.

[SaltySailor]

Appreciate your post but that doesn't seem like anything new in these economic times. I was looking for entry level work off & on for a couple of years and soon realized after speaking to lots of people that it was a bad time to be a OS/Wiper. I was told by both of the SIU halls in Tacoma and Ft Lauderdale that the likely hood of me shipping as an Wiper/OS was pretty remote. Therefore, I decided to do myself a favor and enrolled in a school where I can get a QMED with 5 ratings & RFPEW so that I could actually stand a chance of getting a job. I don't know what your financial situation is, but is it worth it to do nothing and most likely get nothing or spend some money and make yourself more marketable? My $0.02.

The SIU hall in NYC shipped 7 entry-level C cards for the month of December, not sure how many on the beach (can't remember) but those were 7 OS/wiper jobs dispatched through one of the SIU halls.

Good luck with SMA.