Payscales

[bparker]

How do the various sectors of the maritime industry compare in pay for deck officers, and ultimately for Captains/Skippers/Masters?

[Mate]

No one has the balls / wants to give up their payscales this publically. I think this could be a very interesting post. Could we make it into a Poll? Can we make it a poll, do we have the technology?

What I really am curious about:

Payscales of Junior Deck Officers (3rd/2nd Mates)
Pay per month (including vacation, before taxes)

a) 16,000+
b) 14,000 - 16,000
c) 11,000 - 14,000
d) under 11,000

I'll open it up with 'C' as an answer.

[chgonyer]

hell i'm game. bouchard barge mate 330 a day plus 45 for travel

[cappy208]

333 NY union rates.

Mates, 540 a day. AB deckhands 323 a day. OS 250 a day. Lead barge tankerman (in NY its called barge captain, i don't know why.... they're not a captain of ANYTHING!) 520 a day. second tankerman 475 a day. Engineers (licensed) 540 a day, (unlicensed) 475 a day. licensed "2nd Mates" who aren't real navigation watch standing mates but do cargo are around 520 a day.

I think these are the current numbers, if not exact they are close.

Captains in the NY harbor area make between 600 and 825 a day. Depends on which company, and if you crossed a picket line to secure your job in '88. The normal rate for Captain is 625 to 675 a day. 8 holidays a year, most of the companies have you pay about 1000 to 2000 per year for family medical. Some of the companies GIVE individual medical to single employees. Some companies GIVE full medical to Captains free!

You can do the math to figure out how much this is a month.

It is interesting to see other companies who work in NY, like Vane, and DONT pay the NY wage. The Vane rates are around 100 a day LESS for all positions.

[chgonyer]

vane is the same as bouchard, 330 a day for ab tankerman no travel.

[Bouchard Captain]

(in NY its called barge captain, i don't know why.... they're not a captain of ANYTHING!) 520 a day. second tankerman 475 a day.

I agree with you 100%!,
However,
The so called "barge captain" is held liable for any pollution or incidents on a company owned vessel according to the US coastguard!
so this equals a nice payday for us "barge captains", who in reality do NOT have a REAL captains license, and are not REAL captains!
and in fact only carry "Documents"
however when a "barge captain" has any incident he or she will go to jail, and not the owner/operator,
so the term barge captain = payday!

Alot of the tug mates are not happy with our close payscales, so I always get the you are NOT a real captain alot!
and that is all ok!, because when payday comes around I always smile, while I am driving in my 88k rover!

[cappy208]

That's OK. Next time you have to move your barge, see how far you 'get 'er done'!

Nope, there is a huge difference between a PIC and a Captain.

The difference you are talking about is synonymous with the tug engineer and the PIC (Barge). If either one spills fuel, they are both equally liable. But, the safe operation, maneuvering and navigation of the Barge is the responsibility of...... If you either don't know, or cant answer that, then you my friend are why there is an ages old debate over this topic. When you tie up to a dock who TELLS you where and when to put out the first line? Hmmm. The tankerman? No I don't think so! Who says, put the assist tug there? The tankerman? Probably not! When it is time to get underway who says; Start at the ... and work your way to the ....? The tankerman? Ummmm. NO! The Captain.

The tankerman is responsible for the transfer of the product. That is all. How the barge gets from point A to B is the responsibility of ...... Hmmm. let me think. The tankerman? No I don't think so! However, the issue is the title. In NO way is a barge tankerman a Captain. Look it up in a dictionary. (while you're driving that Rover to the trailerpark.)

[cappy208]

....when a "barge captain" has any incident he or she will go to jail, and not the owner/operator,
so the term barge captain = payday!

..... so I always get the you are NOT a real captain alot!

Actually that is incorrect. Anytime anyone of us does something wrong and get oil in the water we are subject to disciplinary action. Office personnel have been held accountable. ( Eklof) And your comment about being a 'real captain' is false. You are NOT a Captain. Period. You are not real. Really you are a PIC. Nothing more, nothing less. Payscale has nothing to do with the title.

That's OK. Those of us who actually have a license understand the difference, even if you don't!

[Bouchard Captain]

(while you're driving that Rover to the trailerpark.)

Actually it is quite funny that you mentioned a trailer park!, because I just bought one in Thompsonville Michigan!
I take over the lot on November 1st! (for real!)

also I am not going to argue or debate with you about being a "barge captain" or a "PIC"
the company calls me that and soo...I wear the hat!
And from now on when I drive my "Rover" to the trailer park, I will be thinking of you, getting your barge safely from point A to B!
all the while harping on the barge PIC's title for some unknown reason .


PS: I am going to go to my mailbox in the trailer park, and take the "captain" prefix off the box and replace it with "PIC", as soon as I get off the barge!

Signed: Bouchard PIC!

[chgonyer]

jesus, who cares if its "barge captain" "pic" or " sea going gas station attendant" (and yes im a tankerman by the way), arent we all supposed to be in this together and support each other? im sure we have all heard from skippers "see how far your barge gets if i dont push it" and eng saying "if i wasnt in the hole you wouldnt be captain of sh*t" and of course there is "if my barge wasnt here to push around you wouldnt have a job, we can get any boat to haul us, we dont need you"

[cappy208]

Actually Chgonyer I am probably the MOST supportive, rationale, understanding crew oriented skipper you could hope to sail with! Guess how much crew turnover i have. -0- in 8 years! Then that was because my mate went Capt!

But I was actually referring to the original post from 'Bouchard Captain' in your original post about Bouchard. When you were looking for info and thoughts on working for Morty. One of the responses was by 'Bouchard Captain.' It was pretty funny that he disputed my comments that wages are 'negotiable' at bouchard. Of course he said that. He didn't think that someone else could have the balls to work the system to get a bigger barge, a barge captains job or a higher wage right off the street!

In regards to the title, It is a Particularly "New York" thing to call Barge Tankerman: Captain. I have been around for a while. It was only when I started to work in NYC in 1993 (post strike, not a picketline crosser!) that I heard the term 'barge Captain.' There is NO legal definition of this title. There is NO industry standard for this title. There is NO USCG license for this title. You started somewhere else. What was a tankerman called there?

This title came about because of the Union trying to 'eeke' out a little more $, prestige, and 'respect' for the guys who actually do this job. This does NOT equate with the position of Captain of ANY boat I have ever worked on. I guess what I am thinking is how stupid would it sound if I demanded to be called: Captain, Captain 'cappy208'? I have been a barge Captain. And I am the Captain of the tug. So does that mean I should be a Capt, Capt? Since I have done both jobs? NO, I am just the Captain. There is NO other Captain on the tug and Barge I push around. Just me. Of course you are there too. Yes, in the long run, we all need to get along. However, the buck stops here. There is only ONE Captain on a boat. It is the guy who is employed as, licensed as, and paid as...... CAPTAIN.

When the tug is towing the barge who is in charge, responsible for the tug AND the tow, Who can order tug and barge crew to secure, make ready and go to sea? The Tug Captain! The Captain does NOT need or look for (but may allow for, or take into consideration) the comments of the barge crew. So getting back to the thought of who is the Captain, how does this effect the operations of the unit? Can there be two Captains on one vessel (tug and barge unit)? Or is there just one? When is the last time the Barge Captain decided the weather was too rough and went weatherbound?

Not that it matters, but I have done all these jobs. I have little time, patience (and less as I get older) and understanding for people who are 'armchair quarterbacks' who second guess, ridicule, and criticize command decisions behind my back, but in the end can't come up with a rationale, clear reason why I should listen to an Unlicensed, unproven, inexperienced, deckhand/tankerman who thinks he is my equal in time, license, experience and knowledge. Again, Yes, we should get along, BUT there is only ONE Captain on a boat.

After thinking about it, next time (or last time) there's an 'incident' on your vessel (unless it is during the transfer of petroleum) who gets to pee in a bottle? Who does the CG take aside and interview? If the engine room blows up, if the mate screws up, if someone gets hurt, if the tankerman falls over taking a leak, if there is a positive drug test, if the boat runs out of fuel, if the boat misses an ETA who gets the phone call? Sometimes I ponder if I should go back to being a tankerman. How simple the life would be then!

[seadawg]

"barge captain, 1st captain, 2nd captain, 3rd captain"??

where are these designations and the like referenced/addressed in the CFR's??

I smell a "brain fart" expelled by some asshole "desk pilot"!!

[cappy208]

Also, the comment about the engineer making things happen... I was told by an engineer that if I didn't like the way he was running the engine room, then next time we docked there 'may' be a steering failure as we approach the dock!


Guess who got FIRED when we did get to the dock!

[chgonyer]

Dont get me wrong, I think "barge captain" is a stupid title, and I agree you 100%, I apologize if it came across as another way. When I started out at Seacoast in Alaska we were called AB/Tankerman, we rode the boats and had AB duties underway. The west coast still does it that way and the east coast is the first place I have heard of this barge captain and barge mate crap. to be honest i was on the west coast for over 10 years and havent heard any of this, stuff or fighting about what to call people untill i got to bouchard in new york, maybe its just a bouchard thing. but ive only been there 5 months and all i hear are the barge guys fighting with the tug guys about titles and not my job crap. Its starting to really drag me down, im used to the west coast and the boat i was on (by the way no turnover on it either cappy), where we all pitched in to get the job done

[seadawg]

the only time I was confronted with the "barge captain/mate" thing was when several years ago I towed a manned asphalt barge from the east coast..probably a geographic thing??toomatoes..taamatoes!!personally call me what you like so long as the paycheck doesn't bounce!!

[Jeffrox]

" guess what I am thinking is how stupid would it sound if I demanded to be called: Captain, Captain 'cappy208'? I have been a barge Captain. And I am the Captain of the tug. So does that mean I should be a Capt, Capt? Since I have done both jobs? NO, I am just the Captain."

Cappy208, I believe in the above case you should be referred to as Comodore.

[cappy208]

maybe its just a bouchard thing.

No, it's a New York thing. The: 'It ain't my job', 'You can't tell me what to do', 'This is MY boat', and above all the radio telephone chatter is all the example of the NY attitude.

Me first, the hell with the rest of you! This is really the only thing I HATE about working in NY. But, the time off has its perks!

[cappy208]

Cappy208, I believe in the above case you should be referred to as Comodore.

NO, I believe admiral would suffice! :-)

[chgonyer]

yup its a huge thing to get used to, especially in western alaska, its a all of us on the boat against everybody else thing. never heard an ab or mate tell the chief they wont help. hell we had captains when we were at anchor come and help us get the boat painted!!!

[Capt. Lee]

I think when considering pay scales you have to consider the total compensation. For Senior DPO's at Seadrill, stateside the Base pay is $135,208 for working 3 weeks on 3 weeks off. That equals about 740 per day of work. There is also a retention program that pays you 4 months salary paid out 5% quarterly after year one and 30% at years 2 and 3. It comes to about 22,535 per year, which comes to about $123.5 per day worked. So that is up to $863.50. There is also training compensation and extra days worked. I am averaging about 1 month extra work and at least 1 month of training paid per year. The benefits are completely paid by the company. So health, dental, vision, prescription. short and long term disability are are provided by the company. I figure that is good for about 400 per month. I figure that is 26.3 per day on even time schedule which brings it up to $896.80. Travel is completely provided by the company for all positions. Not sure what number to put on that since it varies from person to person, but the company does pay us $2400 dollars a year for incidental travel expenses like food and taxis upfront. That is $13.20 for each day worked so that brings it up to $910 per day. Training pay for salaried positions is your salary divided by 365 and that is what you get per day of training, plus reimbursed up to 75 dollars per day for meals. Hotel, rental car and flights paid by the company. If you are hourly then you get your hourly rate 14 hours per day straight time for each day of training. 401K is dollar for dollar match up to 8%. If you work over you get what they call an over under on top of your regular pay. It works out to be your day rate of 740 for each day worked on top of the salary. If you were to add it all up I would say at least 950 to a G per day easy for Senior DPO. Overseas add 45% for Africa to the Salary only and 25% for all other overseas location. Also, while in the shipyard there is a $115 per day per diem for food. It is not unusual for a senior DPO on a drilling rig to make 170-210K depending on assignment.