Complete Career Change at 36.. doable?

[RDEagan]

I was in the Navy for a short time (long story, but honorable discharge) about 16 years ago and have always wanted to be on the ocean. I am now 36 and have been in the car business as a sales manager ever since. I have been recently found myself without a job and think this may be the only time in my life where the timing is right to do what I really love.. work on the ocean. I am prepared to start at the bottom as an Ordinary Seaman and am in the process of getting my TWIC card. First question.. do I need my MMC prior to applying for a job or is that only after I get some sea time and I apply for Able Seaman? Would I be more hireable if I got all my certifications up front? (SWTC, additional training etc). Are there any benefits to joining the SIU even though I am 300 miles away from the closest union hall? Any suggestions on where to start looking for employment? I live in Central Massachusetts so would be initially looking in the Boston/Gloucester/New Bedford area. Does anyone have any experience in this that I could draw on? Online or offline suggestions more than welcome!

Oh, and considering my age, would a Maritime academy be a viable option, or even the Paul Hall Center in MD? Thank you so much in advance..

[richard8000milesaway]

well, my advice is always do what you love to do: this life is WAY to short for any other approach. having said that, you know this is a tough time to join a very cyclical industry.
others are better to judge then me, but perhaps with your military service you could get into MSC (Military Sealift Command).
good luck.
and hey if that doesn't pan out, just do the time honored sailors trick of just walking out the door with your seabag on your shoulder, tossing the car keys to first 9-5 sucker you see, jump on the first yacht going anywhere, and never go back.

[dougpine]

Start here, dig deep, make a list of questions based on what you learn.

Now is a perfect time to be preparing for a career at sea, because there are no jobs. By the time you slog through all the steps required to become hire-able, the market just might be turning around.

It is a great career, but boy is it tough to get started these days.

Paul Hall is a good way to start, the academies are another good path for some. MITAGS/PMI's Workboat Academy is another good entry point.

[Shellback]

Welcome, I can't answer the union questions but you will need aTWIC and MMC in that order...

I was ex Navy too,as are several of the people on the forum...Depending on your rate and if you had sea time it might help you towards AB, If that were the case then getting additional qualifications done now may be a benefit...There are a lot of people like you doing career changes,at 36 I think you are in good shape..The obvious problem is that things in this industry are very slow as well..

What was your rate?

[RDEagan]

Paul Hall isn't even accepting applications at this point, so I guess I'm not the only one considering this

Richard, believe me, I would LOVE to do that, but the problem is getting on the yacht! I've done so much research online that my head is spinning. It seems like the best way to get my foot in the door is just head down to the Port of Boston and walk the docks talking to people (wish I was still in Cali where people can be a tad more friendly to talk to, though). Any thoughts on the benefits of joining a union like the SIU? I know once I'm on board a ship I'll feel at home, but just not sure how to get across that first quarterdeck.

[RDEagan]

Originally Posted by Shellback

Welcome, I can't answer the union questions but you will need aTWIC and MMC in that order...

I was ex Navy too,as are several of the people on the forum...Depending on your rate and if you had sea time it might help you towards AB, If that were the case then getting additional qualifications done now may be a benefit...There are a lot of people like you doing career changes,at 36 I think you are in good shape..The obvious problem is that things in this industry are very slow as well..

What was your rate?

I was a Gunner's Mate in the Navy. I was young and stupid back then and ended up with an RE4 or I would re-enlist. I was shore duty after A school stationed on Vieques Island, so no sea duty (just sea pay, but that doesn't count for experience I'm sure). I am really drawn to deck as opposed to engineering or steward departments and will continue to value your advice and review these boards for tips on how to accomplish this. In my mind I'm already there, now it's just time to get this land out from under my feet!

[RDEagan]

Oh, one other quick question.. How exactly is sea time calculated and recorded? Is it only valid on certain types of vessels? I ask because there is usually work to be had on small fishing boats, etc in the Gloucester/Boston area. I will probably pursue that route initially to get my sealegs back anyway, but wasn't sure if that would help in the furtherance of a mariner career.

[dougpine]

Your sea time on those boats will count, if you can get a letter from the company that owns them or from the Master attesting to your sea time. They won't do you much good after a certain amount of time because they are all probably under 100 gross tons, but some of it will sure help.

[Ordinaryseaman]

Welcome aboard! Definitely doable- but like Doug said- you picked a tough time...

I agree with what everyone said.

Paul Hall and the workboatacademy are great- if you can get in.

If you're serious- get your MMC, and- if you can afford it, BST.

With your prior service you should also check into NOAA and Army Corp of Engineers - in addition to MSC.

You'll have hiring Preference- and some of the jobs are only open to current/former government/military.

NOAA doesn't have much at the time- but the Army Corps advertises openings pretty regularly- check usajobs.gov for more info.

What types of ships are you most interested in? Any interest in traveling- or are you looking for local work?

[RDEagan]

OS,

Thank you for the welcome! I will check out those sites. I am definitely looking to travel. I have no family or close friends and am ready to venture out!

Reading this forum has already proved invaluable! Now if I could only figure out half of the USCG acronyms I'd be doin' alright.

[richard8000milesaway]

"Now if I could only figure out half of the USCG acronyms I'd be doin' alright."

dont let those USCG acronyms get you down. just be sure to get your MMC, BST (for STCW) then a job with NOAA, ACE, or MSC and ALWAYS remember to CYA because you'll be working with some real SOB's.

[mslilith2000]

Wrong time of year but come spring you might want to wander over to Long Wharf in Boston to check out the booze cruise/tour boats. Some of the owners are very generous with training ops and will help you keep track of your time. It used to be that a 12 hour day could count as 1.5 sea days but I don't know if that's still true. Anyway, it's routine for deckhands to work 12 hour days. You may have to add "bartender" to your job responsibilities but so long as they put "deckhand" somewhere in your title, you'll be ok.

It's only 100 ton inland time but it accumulates fast and if you like people, it's definitely fun. Plus it whips you into shape faster than any gym I know - you end up mopping the equivalent of a football field of gooey deck at least three times a day.

[RDEagan]

Originally Posted by mslilith2000

Wrong time of year but come spring you might want to wander over to Long Wharf in Boston to check out the booze cruise/tour boats. Some of the owners are very generous with training ops and will help you keep track of your time. It used to be that a 12 hour day could count as 1.5 sea days but I don't know if that's still true. Anyway, it's routine for deckhands to work 12 hour days. You may have to add "bartender" to your job responsibilities but so long as they put "deckhand" somewhere in your title, you'll be ok.

It's only 100 ton inland time but it accumulates fast and if you like people, it's definitely fun. Plus it whips you into shape faster than any gym I know - you end up mopping the equivalent of a football field of gooey deck at least three times a day.

I hadn't thought of those boats! Thanks for the tip. I'm used to being on the "receiving end" of those cruises! It definitely sounds like my best bet is to head down to the docks once I get my TWIC. I checked all of the online job boards and Craigslist and there wasn't a single posting. Sounds like I'm in for an adventure

[trekleader]

Originally Posted by RDEagan

Now if I could only figure out half of the USCG acronyms I'd be doin' alright.

Bro, that's true for all of us.

Welcome aboard...

First thing, Yes, you can certainly do it. Ask a lot of questions, and search this board.

As has been stated previously, it would be advisable to aim for:

1 - Transportation Worker Identification Card (TWIC)
2 - Merchant Mariner Credential - Ordinary Seaman (MMC OS)
3 - Basic Safety Training - BST Many people call this 'STCW', but its not technically correct. Its BST, which makes a mariner compliant with STCW-95. STCW is Standards of Training, Certification and Watchkeeping. Which is not so important for you to know right now. But, the next time you hear this stuff won't be the first.

I always thought this group is interesting. Brownwater, on the Western Rivers. They have an entry level training program that has a good reputation. One could, conceivably, at the end of a single 4 month hitch, come out with enough sea time to then be able to apply for AB OSV and have a Tankerman PIC (Barge). Thats a good ticket...

http://www.kirbycorpjobs.com/deckhand/

Good luck. Let us know how you're doing...

[trekleader]

I am not too familiar with military sea time equivalencies. The USCG Marine Safety Manual v. 3 Chapter 2 EQUIVALENT SERVICE FOR LICENSES/MERCHANT MARINER'S DOCUMENTS.

For some reason, I can't find a link... anyone here got it handy?

There it says, among other things, a Gunners Mate rating gets 50% towards Deck ratings.

[Shellback]

Originally Posted by trekleader

I am not too familiar with military sea time equivalencies. The USCG Marine Safety Manual v. 3 Chapter 2 EQUIVALENT SERVICE FOR LICENSES/MERCHANT MARINER'S DOCUMENTS.

For some reason, I can't find a link... anyone here got it handy?

There it says, among other things, a Gunners Mate rating gets 50% towards Deck ratings.

This is the link that I use..I don't think it's gonna work for him though..Not without a sea transcript, he would have had to been assigned to some type of vessel to acquire sea time...


http://www.uscg.mil/directives/cim/1...M_16000_8B.pdf

[pwrmariner]

i met a guy who changed career at 46, within 6yrs he was getting ready to sit for his chief mate agt exam. So your good there! If yatchs is a consideration for you try the yatch crewing agencies in Ft. Lauderdale. As long you have to get some training like bst..., might as we'll go to Maritime professional training and stay at a crew house. There are crew houses and yatch crewing agencies within walking distance of MPT. So you will be smack in the middle of the yatching industry, by networking you can gain a lot of info...

[RDEagan]

It does seem like networking is the way to go. That's why (although a staunch Republican) I was thinking about joining the SIU. The problem is, while I will almost certainly be relocating to "somewhere" in the world, I live in MA now and that is where I'll be trying to get my foot in the door. The closest SIU hall is in New York City. Richard, do you have a couch available in the East Village for me?

[RDEagan]

Originally Posted by Shellback

This is the link that I use..I don't think it's gonna work for him though..Not without a sea transcript, he would have had to been assigned to some type of vessel to acquire sea time...


http://www.uscg.mil/directives/cim/1...M_16000_8B.pdf

Shell, unfortunately you're 100% correct. The only time I had on the water was taking the LCM back and forth 8 miles from Vieques to Roosevelt Roads.

[pwrmariner]

Just consider basic safety training or (BST), is 5 days. During your lunch break you can go down to the siu hiring hall and check out the job board and speak with the rep there to get 1st hand info. At night you can talk with your roommates about yatch, and during class breaks you can talk with your fellow class mates....From there you can decide whether or not you want to stay longer than 5 days. But the spring/summer yatching season is usually the Caribbean, the boats and the crew posibilities will predominantly be in Ft Lauderdale. Up to you where you want to spend 5days, on a couch or....

[Ordinaryseaman]

OP-

If he doesn't have a couch check couchsurfing.com- for a free place to sleep. If you have some money check out hostels- you can get a bed/bunk for $10- 20 a night. In a way it's a lot like a ship- as you'll be sharing a room.

I've stayed in hostels in Seattle, Portland, Waikiki, Kauai, Houston, San Antonio... good cheap places to stay- usually.

Lastly- American Cruise Lines is Hiring- and they are pretty close- Guilford Connecticut. Cruise lines are one of the easiest places to get on as a deckhand if you're new.

www.americancruiselines.com

[RDEagan]

Originally Posted by pwrmariner

Just consider basic safety training or (BST), is 5 days. During your lunch break you can go down to the siu hiring hall and check out the job board and speak with the rep there to get 1st hand info. At night you can talk with your roommates about yatch, and during class breaks you can talk with your fellow class mates....From there you can decide whether or not you want to stay longer than 5 days. But the spring/summer yatching season is usually the Caribbean, the boats and the crew posibilities will predominantly be in Ft Lauderdale. Up to you where you want to spend 5days, on a couch or....

Ok, so Ft. Lauderdale it is! (They say salesmen are the easiest to sell lol)

[Shellback]

(although a staunch Republican)

We try to avoid politics here, but I couldn't let this go..A Republican in MA...? Thats pretty funny....

[RDEagan]

I will still need to find local work first. I am going to court Monday to have an OUI arrest CWOF. But part of my deal will be a year's probation. According to the USCG site, I can't even be considered for an MMD until at least a year has passed since my arrest, even though I will never have been convicted of a crime. So my plan (initially until someone changes my mind) is to go forward with my TWIC and then seek local work in MA on local tours, fishing boats, etc. until that year is up, get my MMD and BST. From there hopefully the industry will have turned a bit and I can get a job as an OS. I think the fact that I have no local ties helps and I am willing to work hard anywhere in the world.

This forum has truly been invaluable for advice and assistance and can't wait to be a more active member once I get out there and my experience grows.

[RDEagan]

Originally Posted by Shellback

We try to avoid politics here, but I couldn't let this go..A Republican in MA...? Thats pretty funny....

LOL.. yes. I may be the only Irish Republican in this whole damn place! And true, no place for politics or religion, but some great hippie sentiment over on the Whale Wars thread!