Why are there never any jobs in the deck department posted for NCL and MSC?

[MariaW]

The two job recruiting websites I've been watching for over a year are Norwegian Cruise Lines, the only cruise ship in the U.S. subject to the Jones Act (requiring U.S. citizens to be hired), and Military Sealift Command. There are NEVER deck jobs listed, neither OS or AB. Does anyone know why? Are these jobs being filled through some other channel? There are plenty of other jobs listed all the time that you can apply for, like engineering, steward, etc., but deck is conspicuously absent.

[DeckApe]

As to MSC it's because so many people hire in as entry level steward department, move into deck and advance threw the ranks that there is little need.

NCL unlicensed deck is crewed by SIU so check the boards in the hall.

[MariaW]

As to MSC it's because so many people hire in as entry level steward department, move into deck and advance threw the ranks that there is little need.

NCL unlicensed deck is crewed by SIU so check the boards in the hall.

Does SIU have an exclusive contract with MSC too? I know the SIU school at Piney Point places people with MSC during their apprenticeship program...

I don't understand the way these unions operate. The jobs that NCL advertise online are all union, so why are the non-deck jobs shown, while the deck jobs aren't?

Also, I didn't know you could start out in the steward department and easily move into deck from there.

[brjones]

Officers with NCL have a clause in the union contract that says they can hire on their own. SIU probably doesn't have that clause and you would have to ship off the board.

[seacomber]

[QUOTE=MariaW;95743]Does SIU have an exclusive contract with MSC too? I know the SIU school at Piney Point places people with MSC during their apprenticeship program...

I don't understand the way these unions operate. The jobs that NCL advertise online are all union, so why are the non-deck jobs shown, while the deck jobs aren't?

Also, I didn't know you could start out in the steward department and easily move into deck from there.[/QUOTE SIU is union, MSC is non-union. With either one, you can start in the steward dept. and move to deck. MSC gives you more time to decide, as always performance and support from within the ship helps. SIU has rules against switching departments, it has been allowed but only if you are a new entrant. MSC has not hired any new AB's for over a year because they are filling that need by advancing OS's. I have recently been told that MSC's AB's shouldn't expect to leave and get re-hired as in the past, they just aren't hiring them now.

[seadog6608]

SIU is more of a temporary hiring service than a union. We have always referred to them as, "Scabs Is Us".

[MariaW]

SIU is union, MSC is non-union. With either one, you can start in the steward dept. and move to deck. MSC gives you more time to decide, as always performance and support from within the ship helps. SIU has rules against switching departments, it has been allowed but only if you are a new entrant. MSC has not hired any new AB's for over a year because they are filling that need by advancing OS's. I have recently been told that MSC's AB's shouldn't expect to leave and get re-hired as in the past, they just aren't hiring them now.

Well, here's a question, what about new OS's? I recently saw an MSC tanker dock, and there were at least 10 guys on deck, not a single woman, and half of them were more fluent in a foreign language than English. One of them even shouted an instruction in what sounded like Filipino. They were all middle-aged. So where does the MSC hire their deckhands? If they were all transfered from the steward's department, where are the women? Why doesn't it say on the site that this is the route you must go? This was not the first time I saw an MSC ship. The last one I saw had no women on deck either. What gives?

[catherder]

Well, here's a question, what about new OS's? I recently saw an MSC tanker dock, and there were at least 10 guys on deck, not a single woman, and half of them were more fluent in a foreign language than English. One of them even shouted an instruction in what sounded like Filipino. They were all middle-aged. So where does the MSC hire their deckhands? If they were all transfered from the steward's department, where are the women? Why doesn't it say on the site that this is the route you must go? This was not the first time I saw an MSC ship. The last one I saw had no women on deck either. What gives?

Which ship? Some are contract operated and hire through the unions. Others are crewed by civmars and are hired directly by the government.

Also, as you have observed, many crew originate overseas. However, they are US citizens, as they have to hold a US MMC and get a security clearance.

There are plenty of women working on MSC ships, don't be discouraged by a brief example.

Have you submitted an application?

[MariaW]

Which ship? Some are contract operated and hire through the unions. Others are crewed by civmars and are hired directly by the government.

Also, as you have observed, many crew originate overseas. However, they are US citizens, as they have to hold a US MMC and get a security clearance.

There are plenty of women working on MSC ships, don't be discouraged by a brief example.

Have you submitted an application?

I was wondering if maybe all OS deckhands are contracted through a private company. The ship was a "USNS" but I forgot the name. If you go to the website, you can see that you can only submit an application for jobs that are posted, which is what led me to post this thread in the first place. The OS jobs are never posted. In fact, I called a recruiter who confirmed they haven't posted an OS job in years, although they frequently post Steward/Utility and Wiper jobs. She only could tell me they post jobs according to MSC's needs, and that you could take training classes to move up to be an OS (?). (sorry, sounded like she didn't know what she was talking about) So this whole thing is mystifying to me. How could they never need OSs in years? They certainly don't make it easy for a potential recruit to figure out how to get into their service doing an entry-level deck job.

[seacomber]

Which ship? Some are contract operated and hire through the unions. Others are crewed by civmars and are hired directly by the government.

Also, as you have observed, many crew originate overseas. However, they are US citizens, as they have to hold a US MMC and get a security clearance.

There are plenty of women working on MSC ships, don't be discouraged by a brief example.

Have you submitted an application?

There ARE plenty of women working on MSC and SIU ships. All U.S. sailors must speak english, what you heard is an example of how some of our sailors find it easier to use a language they are familiar with. Not good, because everyone on deck should be speaking the same language. Why there were no women on THAT deck could have many different reasons. From what I have seen in MSC, at some point men and women have a choice between watchstanding or daywork and word spreads quickly where the better place to be is, depends on the ship. In the union, you will find women in all positions of the deck department because those ships run a smaller crew. Discrimination, pollution and sexual harassment are closely guarded against by most companies, knowing this has worked to the benefit of some and angst of others.

[SaltySailor]

I was wondering if maybe all OS deckhands are contracted through a private company. The ship was a "USNS" but I forgot the name. If you go to the website, you can see that you can only submit an application for jobs that are posted, which is what led me to post this thread in the first place. The OS jobs are never posted. In fact, I called a recruiter who confirmed they haven't posted an OS job in years, although they frequently post Steward/Utility and Wiper jobs. She only could tell me they post jobs according to MSC's needs, and that you could take training classes to move up to be an OS (?). (sorry, sounded like she didn't know what she was talking about) So this whole thing is mystifying to me. How could they never need OSs in years? They certainly don't make it easy for a potential recruit to figure out how to get into their service doing an entry-level deck job.

SIU UA Program Piney Point MD, Apply today!

[MattyB]

One reason for the lack of open deck opportunities as opposed to engineering opportunities is because engineers have an easier time to transition ashore. Their skills are more marketable as opposed to a Deck Hand who really can only be a deck hand.

[catherder]

I was wondering if maybe all OS deckhands are contracted through a private company. The ship was a "USNS" but I forgot the name. If you go to the website, you can see that you can only submit an application for jobs that are posted, which is what led me to post this thread in the first place. The OS jobs are never posted. In fact, I called a recruiter who confirmed they haven't posted an OS job in years, although they frequently post Steward/Utility and Wiper jobs. She only could tell me they post jobs according to MSC's needs, and that you could take training classes to move up to be an OS (?). (sorry, sounded like she didn't know what she was talking about) So this whole thing is mystifying to me. How could they never need OSs in years? They certainly don't make it easy for a potential recruit to figure out how to get into their service doing an entry-level deck job.

Again- it depends on whether the ship is operated directly by MSC or operated by a contractor, in which case deckhands are hired through the union hall.

Most of the civmar deckhands likely started out in the Stewards Dept.

Why not contact Rob Gans at MSC? 757-217-1930 or toll free 1-888-282-1493

[MariaW]

Again- it depends on whether the ship is operated directly by MSC or operated by a contractor, in which case deckhands are hired through the union hall.

Most of the civmar deckhands likely started out in the Stewards Dept.

Why not contact Rob Gans at MSC? 757-217-1930 or toll free 1-888-282-1493

Thank you, can you please tell me what his function is there?

[SaltySailor]

Well, here's a question, what about new OS's? I recently saw an MSC tanker dock, and there were at least 10 guys on deck, not a single woman, and half of them were more fluent in a foreign language than English. One of them even shouted an instruction in what sounded like Filipino. They were all middle-aged. So where does the MSC hire their deckhands? If they were all transfered from the steward's department, where are the women? Why doesn't it say on the site that this is the route you must go? This was not the first time I saw an MSC ship. The last one I saw had no women on deck either. What gives?

Filipino's speak Tagalog and for the most part, English, often very well.

On both SIU contracted ships and on NON-union ships, I've worked with guys (and some girls) from the USA, Honduras, Phlliapines, Poland, Romania, Peru, Yemen, Mexico, China, Somalia, Israel and more places in Europe, Africa, Mid-East, Asia, LatAm etc.

They were either US citizens or had Green Cards.

Male or female, black, white, young, old, fat or thin, deeply religous or an athiest, Dem or Repub, American by birth or naturalized citizen, can you do the job? Do it safely? Be a good shipmate? Not be a slacker? That's what I CARE about!

I don't condone ANY form of discrimination, but it's a two-way street... Some folks shoudln't get special treatement while others get shafted... If I couldn't do my job, as a white male, I would be on the dock and a replacement shipped from the hall. But I know for a FACT that there are folks that are sailing and hide behind race, sex, whatever to get away with their inabillty to do the job or more often their laziness.

This is still a male dominated industry. Maybe 70%, 80% male? Dunno. But at Piney Point out of a class of trainee's, maybe 1 in 10 or 1 in 20 is female and MOST of them CHOOSE the Stew Dept! Nobody forced them to do so and plenty of females sail on deck and in the engine dept.

NCL has TWO union's on-board. SEATU covers all the hotel, F&B staff etc... ALL of those jobs are direct hire by NCL at it's recruiting fairs and on-line. And somebody who is hired on and works NCL/SEATU is NOT a SIU member nor do they hold a SIU book of any sort... They can ALWAYS choose to register at a SIU hall for 90 days and try their luck or go to UA Program @Piney Point. A number of former SEATU folks from NCL-POA have done just that...

SIU dispatches the Deck and Engine jobs from the Hall, usually in Honolulu... C-Cards have gotten a gig as OS on the PoA by sitting in the hall in Hawaii...Hint hint

Also, a look at the maritime academies will show anybody that a much higher percentage of females that enter the industry seem to do so by going to an Academy and then coming out as 3rd/M or 3rd A/E... I've sailed with plenty of female officers, both deck and engine and almost all of them were academy grads.

[seadog6608]

Salty Sailor, you couldn't be more right! One of the main reasons I quit MSC after so long was that I could no longer abide the reverse discrimination so prevalent there. Its great to be the "go-to" guy, but when the go-to guy is the "only" guy doing anything, it gets old.

[seacomber]

Salty Sailor, you couldn't be more right! One of the main reasons I quit MSC after so long was that I could no longer abide the reverse discrimination so prevalent there. Its great to be the "go-to" guy, but when the go-to guy is the "only" guy doing anything, it gets old.

The only way to beat this b.s. is to move up or move on. MSC is full of riders. Sequestration may have an impact in the pool, but the homesteaders will probably chain themselves to the mast.

[SaltySailor]

Salty Sailor, you couldn't be more right! One of the main reasons I quit MSC after so long was that I could no longer abide the reverse discrimination so prevalent there. Its great to be the "go-to" guy, but when the go-to guy is the "only" guy doing anything, it gets old.

Sounds much the same as some SIU ships... On one oil tanker a while back we had 2 female AB's sailing as STOS...Why? Cause they SUCKED at their jobs...Couldn't even steer the ship, or throw rope or tie knots or follow simple directions...Like sweep and mop this deck or area...

Was it because they were female? Nah. Was it because they used being female and/or minority to hide behind the fact that they sucked? Probably. Once the bosun was pissed cause one of em didn't do some task she had been given, so he chewed her out a bit, but it wasn't even much of a butt chewing...after the bosun left she started to talk about how she could set him and the company up for harassment and discrimination for a law suit... There we GO! Slack off and NOT do your job and when you get called out on it, play the "Race" card and the "Female" card and SUE the company cause you hold an AB endorsement, YET you can't even do the job of an OS right... And some people WONDER why SOME people WANT to get RID of ALL US Mariners and fill our jobs with 3rd world sailors that work for $800 bucks a month for a 10 month contract and don't complain...

I do remember the Filipino guys telling stories of what it's like on those foreign flag ships...They fished off the side, not for fun like we did (oopps was I supposed to say that??? Uh ohhh, sure hope "fish n game" doesn't come for me now, cause we caught those fish off the side of the ship in Homer AK, they were damn tasty though...) they HAD to fish off the side so they would have FISH to EAT as, the company ONLY supplied RICE for the CREW to EAT! Even the worse US flag ships are better than that...

I don't mind helping out...But why do I have to do MY job AND another person's job??? If you weigh 90 pounds soaking wet, then the deck of a tanker runnning Valdez to Nikiski/Drift River 24 hours from departure to arrival back and forth...Maybe that's NOT the place for YOU, esp when you can't DO your JOB and the bosun has to hold ur damn hand and baby sit you all the time...

[seadog6608]

The only way to beat this b.s. is to move up or move on. MSC is full of riders. Sequestration may have an impact in the pool, but the homesteaders will probably chain themselves to the mast.

Part of the reverse discrimination was being unable to get promoted. Getting a 3/M license as a white male hawsepiper doesn't get you far for most guys at MSC. One write up in your past and you won't make the "best qualified" list. They do not allow you to atone for past sins. And the acadamy grads have a qualification you don't have. A degree. Ask MSC xCapt how many of his fellow Captains were hawsepipers. Not too many.

[seadog6608]

Sounds much the same as some SIU ships... On one oil tanker a while back we had 2 female AB's sailing as STOS...Why? Cause they SUCKED at their jobs...Couldn't even steer the ship, or throw rope or tie knots or follow simple directions...Like sweep and mop this deck or area...

Was it because they were female? Nah. Was it because they used being female and/or minority to hide behind the fact that they sucked? Probably. Once the bosun was pissed cause one of em didn't do some task she had been given, so he chewed her out a bit, but it wasn't even much of a butt chewing...after the bosun left she started to talk about how she could set him and the company up for harassment and discrimination for a law suit... There we GO! Slack off and NOT do your job and when you get called out on it, play the "Race" card and the "Female" card and SUE the company cause you hold an AB endorsement, YET you can't even do the job of an OS right... And some people WONDER why SOME people WANT to get RID of ALL US Mariners and fill our jobs with 3rd world sailors that work for $800 bucks a month for a 10 month contract and don't complain...

I do remember the Filipino guys telling stories of what it's like on those foreign flag ships...They fished off the side, not for fun like we did (oopps was I supposed to say that??? Uh ohhh, sure hope "fish n game" doesn't come for me now, cause we caught those fish off the side of the ship in Homer AK, they were damn tasty though...) they HAD to fish off the side so they would have FISH to EAT as, the company ONLY supplied RICE for the CREW to EAT! Even the worse US flag ships are better than that...

I don't mind helping out...But why do I have to do MY job AND another person's job??? If you weigh 90 pounds soaking wet, then the deck of a tanker runnning Valdez to Nikiski/Drift River 24 hours from departure to arrival back and forth...Maybe that's NOT the place for YOU, esp when you can't DO your JOB and the bosun has to hold ur damn hand and baby sit you all the time...

And yes, I sailed with women and minorities who were good at their job. And plenty who knew that their minority status gave them a job for life. All they had to do was show up, pass the piss tests and don't get caught stealing.