AB - Limited on T/S only?

**Siberfire** · February 5th, 2009, 01:05 PM

Just read an interesting memo to the school from the NMC.

It basically stated that after 180 days of sea project time and the completion of a few courses you are allowed to have

AB Limited and Lifeboat Man but restricted to the T/S State of Michigan.

I guess the question is, why in the world would this be a benefit? I could have missed something on the memo, didnt get the date. It said to talk to James Cavo if there are any questions. Maybe he can show me the light.

Any Ideas? Any other academies have this sort of thing going on. I do know that the academy is a complete package. All or nothing if you dont graduate or drop out.

**jcrosby4288** · February 5th, 2009, 08:58 PM

i know that at mass maritime that before you can commercial ship that you must have a cadet MMD with life-boatsman certification so maybe that will help answer your question.

**CMA_Decky** · February 5th, 2009, 11:43 PM

We get the Z-card before freshman year, not with our lifeboatman though. I've heard that after your sophomore(?) year you have enough of the STCW to knock out your AB Z-Card. I don't know anyone that's taken advantage of that yet though.

**jcrosby4288** · February 6th, 2009, 06:48 AM

i think thats why they have us wait untill our sophomore year to get them so that it like a one time deal so we can just get the z card once.

**Siberfire** · February 6th, 2009, 11:54 AM

We apply for out MMD's in the first two weeks on the campus. Thats after we do all the BST and get our lifeboatman.

Our MMD all say deck or engine cadet observer. o/s, wiper, foodhandler and lifeboatman.

I just find it odd that they would allow us to get an A/B and have it restricted only to the Training Ship. Cadet time is obviously more advantageous as we get 1.5 days per day underway.

**jcrosby4288** · February 6th, 2009, 12:26 PM

hmmmm never thought of it like that before

**yeehawherb** · February 20th, 2009, 10:56 AM

My understanding is this....

At TMA our Z-cards (which are issued after we take lifeboatman and usually you've completed advanced marine firefighting as well before your 1st trianing cruise). They used to be issued as AB-Limited/Special, which was nice casue alot of cadets would work for tug companies on the weekends... About 4 years ago it switched to say "LB MAN, Cadet DK (MARAD TRN PROG ONLY) Valid only while in US MATP."

I discussed this with the folks at the Houston REC casue we had to turn them in for AB cards if we wanted to work on tugs, etc while in school. His explanation was that too many people that dropped out of academies were using their AB ticket to work, but wern't really qualified (or authorized rather) to work as an AB. Though the Cadet Z-card is supposed to be the same as a AB Sepcial/Limited...

Make Sense?

**Siberfire** · February 21st, 2009, 06:52 AM

That does make sense.

Also, I learned that even though we are a training vessel we still need to fill out the COI... That means we need AB's to sail. Pretty simple i guess.

**jdcavo** · March 2nd, 2009, 09:44 AM

It's not "a few courses" it's the first 3 years of the 4-year curriculum. You also have to pass written exams that are equivalent to the Coast Guard AB exams.

You are right, the "cadet ABs" are needed to fill the COI. The approval is being done by the "school ship" authority in the CFR to qualify ABs. The rationale was that if completing the full 4 years qualifies you for AB-Unlimited, the 3 year curriculum would be adequate for the training ship where the ABs will be under close supervision.

This only works under a specific approval. It doesn't mean that cadets at any other academy can get AB endorsements, or that you can get an AB endorsement if you leave the academy short of graduation.

**jdcavo** · March 2nd, 2009, 10:15 PM

Originally Posted by Siberfire

I just find it odd that they would allow us to get an A/B and have it restricted only to the Training Ship. Cadet time is obviously more advantageous as we get 1.5 days per day underway.

Even and one and half to one (for training ships only, not commercial ships) you only get 360 days service in the entire 4 year program, after 3 years you have less than that. That alone isn't enough to qualify for most AB endorsements.

**bensmiata** · March 5th, 2009, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by jdcavo

Even and one and half to one (for training ships only, not commercial ships) you only get 360 days service in the entire 4 year program, after 3 years you have less than that. That alone isn't enough to qualify for most AB endorsements.

1 cadet day is equal to 4 AB days, therefore 360 cadet days x 4 = gives you an AB ticket (required for AB ticket is 1080 days).

**jdcavo** · March 5th, 2009, 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by bensmiata

1 cadet day is equal to 4 AB days, therefore 360 cadet days x 4 = gives you an AB ticket (required for AB ticket is 1080 days).

Graduating academy cadets get AB endorsements under 46 CFR 166.01(c) not due to some mysterious Enron-type accounting that makes 270 days on a ship come out to over 1,000.