QMED and engineer

[Richard Post]

I'm leaning towards the School in Ft Lauderdale, any exsperiance there or any recomendation of other Schools. Considering two of my failed Tests I got a 68 on I'm not sure I want to commit to a 3 week and 4k to school but I will say some Warm Weather after the Berring Sea would thaw me out. Keep in mind this is for a DDE Unlimited. Thanx for the Tips....

[Steamer]

I'm leaning towards the School in Ft Lauderdale, Weather after the Berring Sea would thaw me out.

MPT has a pretty good reputation and a good facility. You will probably suffer thermal shock if you come down here now.

[spikesamuels]

I need to try to figure out something quickly here and thought maybe you could help me. I sent in my application for DDE Any Horsepower, I have per the USCG over 1200 days of service and just over 700 days as Qmed or above. However I can't meet the recency clause of 90 days in past 3 years. I have worked for a Casino/Vessel for the past 3-1/2 years but I am a Facilities Supervisor/Chief Engineer on the land side and would like to get my license to go to the vessel side. Should I just get my QMED with some endorsement and work on getting my recency clause filled somewhere/somehow? or do you have some suggestions? Thanks Spike

[Richard Post]

MPT has a pretty good reputation and a good facility. You will probably suffer thermal shock if you come down here now.

I just finished my last Test with the USCG. I went to the MPT School with Robert teaching and would recomend it again. Its a 3 week class on what you need to pass the test. Each Day You will feel drained when you leave and then more homework. The last week is Math week and I didn't need much of this in my Tests ( DDE Unlimeted) but you would for higher licences. I think most people have the most trouble with Electrical I would of liked to see a little more time spent there. Electrical being my hardest to learn I failed that test the 1st time and lucked out as Crawford Natical School ( Seattle) was just starting there Electrical the next week so I went there as well. Fred the instructor is good and has been doing it for a long time and knows the Subject well. After his Class and a lot of luck I passed the Test today. His Class ( Engineer) is a month long and spends two weeks on General, one on Electrical and one on Motors. His Class is a bit layed back compared to Roberts its an hour less a day and less homework. Basicly you have a month to learn what was cramed in in two weeks at MPT. I'm not going to say one is better than another what worked for me was cramming in what I knew the best and taking an additional week to learn what I knew the least. Both Instuctors are retired Unlimeted Engineers and know the Subject well. Good Luck....

[seadog!]

What are your plans if you have an electrical problem on board?

Look up test questions as a troubleshooting guide as you drift around?

[SaltySailor]

I also find it interesting that the way the USCG tests and we are supposed to study to pass the exams, but that doesn't mean we really know the subjects. One of the big advantages of the SIU is the school at Piney Point where you can study an entire boatload of maritime courses, esp. the engineering courses are very well crafted and appear to offer a combo of both theory and practical hands-on training.

Now I am wondering... Would a deep-sea QMED be better trained and prepared (let's say they have been taking Union courses to upgrade, for example) than say a DDE 4000 on an OSV? This is not a swipe at any posters, just a "thinking out loud" kinda question.

I realize that a QMED on a deep-sea ship always has the licensed engineers to fallback upon, but at the same time, unlicensed engine room rating can constantly learn from the various licensed engineers on-board a large ship.

I have worked on both large cargo vessels and on OSV's and my preference is for larger vessels. I don't much like the idea of being the "go-to" man for any and all engineering problems on-board. Of course there are some OSV's run with several engineers and Oilers, but those seem to be the exception, not the rule.

[SaltySailor]

Hello all it has been a while since i have logged on. I would like to make a correction to a previous post.

A DDE 4000 under the new MMC rules does. However he must hold a STCW, and OICEW endorment as well. The only reason i do know this to be fact is. I hold a DDE 4000 with STCW / OICEW and i hold international endorsment of 2nd 3rd assistant engineer, Assitant engineer LTD, DDE

After reviewing many things i have come to find out under the new STCW changes coming in July 2010 (maybee). That the 2nd and 3rd assistant is NOT INTERNATIONAL it is domestic and limited to 500 GRT near coastal. Sorry about the bad information on that post. After hours of talking to the <ACRONYM title="National Maritime Center">NMC</ACRONYM>, and <ACRONYM title="United States Coast Guard">USCG</ACRONYM> the new STCW changes are restructering the engineering side. (so to speak) There will be no more DDE 1,000 it will be 2nd, 3rd, asst eng A/E Limited up to 4,000 HP. This will be on domestic vessels near coastal. After following the new chart and hours of mind numbing reading I have found that the <ACRONYM title="National Maritime Center">NMC</ACRONYM>/<ACRONYM title="United States Coast Guard">USCG</ACRONYM> are structering the domestic side to mirror the Oceans side. So the chain can look something like this for a new mariner looking to go to the engine room.

Oiler (QMED)
3RD Engineer (under 4,000hp)
2ND Engineer (under 4,000hp)
DDE 4,0000 (all these steps are limited to domestic tonnage 500 GRT near coastal)

DDE AHP / A/E Limited Oceans (1,600 GRT 3,000 ITC) a DDE AHP is good for any waters and the A/E Limited Oceans you do qualify for but have to take the electrical exam. For those of you who are like me and have to start from square one. Electrical can be a pain in the you know what. Also note the tonnage changes. You no longer get 6,000 ITC with a DDE AHP.

C/E Limited or 3rd A/E
both of these positions require testing and evaluation and is the next step in the chain after you obtain your DDE AHP.

There is a question i would like to answer also that was posted.

Just how am I supposed to get the RFPEW signed off if I there are almost no jobs for wipers on deep-sea ships (except SIU controlled vessels)? And I was hoping to possibly go to the GOM on a large OSV to get the RFPEW assesments done... But It needs to be on a large ship with a 1st, 2nd and 3rd AE's? Or can a DDE sign-off on it?

Yes a DDE 4,000 can sign off on your assesments. However the person holding the DDE 4,000 must have STCW / OICEW endorsment on thier license. If they don't your going to need someone with a bigger license to sign you off. (this is still subjet to change when the new STCW changes come out).

I am a hawspiper and have had to study many books that were hand me downs to pass the <ACRONYM title="United States Coast Guard">USCG</ACRONYM> exams. However just as some extra info for those of you starting out. My brother is attending school for QMED-Oiler a 9 day class, testing on the 9th day. (bayu labatry AL) <--sorry for the spelling of that one. He was informed that when he passes he will get a certificate mailed to him in 7 to 10 days that he can submitt to the <ACRONYM title="United States Coast Guard">USCG</ACRONYM>/<ACRONYM title="National Maritime Center">NMC</ACRONYM> and obtain his ticket. This school was around $800.00 with meals and sleeping accomidations. After doing this there is no testing at the REC since it is now a <ACRONYM title="United States Coast Guard">USCG</ACRONYM> approved course. This can make things a bit easier for those of you just starting out. As for the RFPEW and getting your assesments singed off. This can be alot harder than sqeezing blood from a carrot. However if you do come across a DDE 4,000 just ask if they have STCW/OICEW endorsment, and your in.

As for skipping QMED and heading straight to DDE 4,000 i would suggest testing and doing this very promptly. With the new changes coming you will not be able to do this. For example i have a DDE 4,000 Any unlicensed rating (QMED) STCW/OICEW as stated above i have the new 2nd, 3rd, etc. Limited to 500 GRT near coastal domestic. I have fallen under the new STCW rules even though they are not in effect as of yet. I did take some advise and submitt a packet to obtain a C/E Limited OSV and my application was withdrawn. I did not get any official answer as to why however my guess is 1. due to the new changes comming into effect it no longer applies. or 2. since i am still in the process of testing for my DDE AHP / A/E Limited Oceans It was withdrawn for that reason.

So at the rate things are changing some of the old rules may not apply anymore. All i can say is good luck and hope you can make your goals.

YoungEngineer
Fix it or Go Home

ALSO, has ANYBODY heard any updates about the possible engineering licensing changes from the USCG? When I visited both REC Seattle and REC Los Angeles I was told that those were just some proposed changes that were floated about and they are now DOA and that there are no changes in the pipeline.

[Flyer69]

FYI, unless you are very new in the marine industry The best way to get a “QMED ANY” rating on your Merchant Mariners Document “MMD” Z-Card and includes “ANY Unlicensed rating in the engine room”, is to take the DDE exam and get a Designated Duty Engineers license; I know it works for a DDE 4000 that is 2 years sea time, not sure for a DDE 1000 which is only is only one year sea time.
I know that they give qualifying sea time for onboard engineering work (being at the dock counts too, engineers can get day for day etc or 1.5 days each day with 12 hours working not underway and at the dock) Deck Department either licensed or unlicensed cannot do this.
If you have one year sea time on any kind of vessel as serving in the capacity of serving as the soul engineer unlicensed this counts for as serving in a supervisory capacity as a QMED and you have NO QMED, and can count for working as an engineer for a license. (Again verify this with a licensed evaluator or the latest CFR’s)
Believe it or not working on someone’s small private boat in the capacity of engineer might qualify you for the sea time for a Designated Duty Engineer lower level License (under 1600 tons) and/or a QMED.

Is this really true?

[YoungEngineer]

Yes most of this holds true. As for the DDE 1,000 like the previous poster i am unsure about that. When i first got my DDE 4,000 i was upgraded to QMED any rating. As for working as a soul engineer on a vessel to qualify for your DDE testing requirements this no longer applies. In short the USCG no longer accepts sea time letters stating working as unlicensed engineer / or equivalent supervisory position to get your qualifications to test as a DDE. To my understanding you have to work as a wiper/oiler on a vessel of over 100 gross tons for so many days to qualify for testing requirements for the DDE. Other requirements have also come into play to test for DDE now days also. You now have to have your advanced fire fighting, medical care provider, and advanced life boat man. When you have filled all 4 requirements you can fill out an application and start testing for your DDE. This is just a suggestion but if you have all the requirements to test for your DDE do it before January 2012 before the new STCW changes come into effect. The DDE 1,000 and 4,000 will no longer exist and you will be starting from square one again trying to claw your way to the top. If you get your DDE 4,000 before the new STCW changes you will get grand fathered into the 1st assistant, 2nd engineering officer of 10,000 horsepower. You will have some training and assessments to do to reach this endorsement however no testing required. If you have more questions feel free to post i will do my best to get you on the right track. Good luck to you and happy engineering.

YoungEngineer

[Flyer69]

The checklist is showing QMED or equivalent supervisory position, I am not seeing any language that precludes a sole unlicensed engineer from being treated as this "equivalent supervisory position" ?
Mr. Cavo?

[SaltySailor]

Is this really true?

I spoke to the NMC and they informed that a DDE-4000 can get a QMED-Any Rating but a DDE 1000 can NOT.

[KPEngineer]

If you get your DDE 4,000 before the new STCW changes you will get grand fathered into the 1st assistant, 2nd engineering officer of 10,000 horsepower.
YoungEngineer

And where might I ask did you get this information? This seems like such a Huuuuuuge jump that my BS meter is going off big time.

[power230]

YoungEngineer
You can get any DDE license if you serve as a unlicensed engineer. I have no clue to where you get your information from, but several guys I work with have been able to use unlicensed engineer time from tug boats to get a DDE License, 4000 and unlimited horsepower. As far as the 1st and 2nd Assistant 10,000 your referring to, that was part of the chart and proposed rules which have not been finalized. And as far as the 2012 date, that is unclear as well. If you read the IMO Meetings, they have 2017 that a country must meet the new rules/requirements set forth by the new STCW. Also if you have Sea time prior to 2012 a country may continue to use the current license structure up/until 2017. But the USCG can change when they want anytime.. Please get your information correct before posting it on here. Many people use information from here. I seriously doubt the changes will happen in 2012... We don't have any schools at all offering any of the required classes in the U.S. You can't change something and make it a requirement when it's not availible.

[power230]

To my understanding you have to work as a wiper/oiler on a vessel of over 100 gross tons for so many days to qualify for testing requirements for the DDE. Other requirements have also come into play to test for DDE now days also. You now have to have your advanced fire fighting, medical care provider, and advanced life boat man. When you have filled all 4 requirements you can fill out an application and start testing for your DDE

YoungEngineer [/QUOTE]

Tonnage requirements have never been a requirement for engineers. This is nothing new with the 4 requirements you have listed. But yet that only applys to a applicant wanting STCW for their DDE. You don't have to meet those to test, all you need is the sea time. You will be restricted to inland only and receive your STCW after you take the required 4 classes.

[Engineer lance]

tengineer I agree; they there are a lot of new code changes coming.
I am on my 4th issue of my lower level masters and 3 engineering licenses and MMD. (not patting myself on the back, just trying to let you know I know a bit about several variations between both Masters and Engineering Licenses and also MMDS Deck and Engine and it’s taken me over 20 years to learn and I like to share this knowledge with others when I can. But please know CFR’s are changing or some have changed,
When in doubt go verify by reading the latest version of the US Federal Code of Regulations for the sections that apply! This is United States LAW if you don’t know! The latest is always available online too (smile) and make sure you are looking at the Latest Codes, sometimes they change!
As far as I know the CFR's have not changed for this? But you should check to be sure ONLINE or with the National Marine Center and ask them to be sure and explain and prove it to you, or go in person to to your local USCG (REC) “Regional Exam Center”; but make sure if you go to the REC " You Talk To Only A Licensed evaluator at the counter; and not someone lower; by stating specifically that you are respectfully requesting that you wish to speak to a licensed evaluator.
Don’t make a mistake to speak to anyone lower then a License Evaluator; you have the right to do this (and don’t worry about the look the person gives you when you say this just be very polite and respectful ! The people at the counter unless you get very lucky are low level people and do not know about many things they will tell you they do!!! Even at the National Marine Center verify you are talking to a a License Evaluator.
FYI, unless you are very new in the marine industry The best way to get a “QMED ANY” rating on your Merchant Mariners Document “MMD” Z-Card and includes “ANY Unlicensed rating in the engine room”, is to take the DDE exam and get a Designated Duty Engineers license; I know it works for a DDE 4000 that is 2 years sea time, not sure for a DDE 1000 which is only is only one year sea time.
I know that they give qualifying sea time for onboard engineering work (being at the dock counts too, engineers can get day for day etc or 1.5 days each day with 12 hours working not underway and at the dock) Deck Department either licensed or unlicensed cannot do this.
If you have one year sea time on any kind of vessel as serving in the capacity of serving as the soul engineer unlicensed this counts for as serving in a supervisory capacity as a QMED and you have NO QMED, and can count for working as an engineer for a license. (Again verify this with a licensed evaluator or the latest CFR’s)
Believe it or not working on someone’s small private boat in the capacity of engineer might qualify you for the sea time for a Designated Duty Engineer lower level License (under 1600 tons) and/or a QMED.
If you know someone that has one QMED rating say I.E QMED Oiler and one year or more total sea service and wants to add other QMED ratings (there are several); Here are some words of wisdom, tell them to not to take any more QMED exams for each different QMED rating they want, skip this idea completely and go get a Designated Duty Engineers license (talk to the evaluators at the REC and or NMC about this) When I got my DDE 4000 license I did not even have an MMD/Z-Card they gave me a new Z-Card and on then added “ANY UNLICENSED RATING IN THE ENGINE ROOM”.
DDE License training is not much more than a QMED training so be smart use your brain.
After saying all this I have one thing to add more words of wisdom.>>
Most people do not know this, But If you have a DDE 4000 Engineer License or you get one, and you might want to work in the oil patch and make some very good money; you can get a Chief Engineer Limited 1600 tons domestic (3000 tons ITC) by simply requesting a Chief Engineer Limited License “OSV” (Offshore Supply Vessel) There is no examination if you have a DDE 4000!!! The only cost is the evaluation for the endorsement and the issuance of the license.
If anyone reads this and notices I made any mistakes and/or current CFR changes that apply etc please do not hesitate to correct me. The more I learn the less I know!

I hold a DDE 4000/CE OSV 4000 and the coast guard is giving me all kind of trouble with getting my CE OSV Unlimited HP with out testing. They sent me a letter to test and in Policy Ltr 07-00 states i don't have to test for my Unlimited CE OSV. I have just sent them a letter of reconsideration. Any ideas on what else i should do?

[Engineer lance]

KelLogGes as you stated about the QMED as of April of 2009 it still holds true. I obtained my DDE 4000 and now have the QMED “ANY UNLICENSED RATING IN THE ENGINE ROOM”. I have taken you up on your advice about the C/E Limited OSV i submitted a packet and it is now at the NMC. I will let you know how it went. Thanks for the advise this will help in my carrer since the company i work for owns mostly OSV vessels.

Was you able to get your C/E Limited OSV because i am having all kind of trouble getting mine.

[power230]

You have to upgrade to DDE Unlimted to get a Chief OSV any horsepower. You can only get Engineer OSV any horsepower and Chief OSV 4000 with a DDE 4000. You will have to test for the DDE Unlimited, all 4 modules which one will be electricity.

[Engineer lance]

I understand what you are saying about having to test for a dde any HP. I run across a Policy ltr. 07-00 and it states:

5. A mariner holding a license as chief engineer (OSV) of less than 4,000 HP on domestic, near
coastal voyages that was acquired as set forth in paragraph 1.a may be issued an increase in
scope to an unlimited HP license upon completion of the additional sea service. No further

testing, training, or assessments are required.

1. An applicant for a license as chief engineer (OSV) limited to motor vessels on near coastal
domestic voyages may qualify for this license as follows:
a. Chief engineer (OSV) of less than 4,000 HP and less than 3,000 gross tons on domestic,
near coastal voyages. The mariner must complete the U. S. Coast Guard approved, OMSAdeveloped,
skill assessment program; meet the applicable regulatory requirements of 46 CFR
part 10; meet the sea service requirements applicable to a DDE of not more than 4,000 HP

[(10.524(b)(2)]; and pass the required examination; or

I have also read a few people talking about this policy letter on this forum (saying that you can do this).
I called the Coast Guard before i sent my paper work in to find out if this letter still stands and i was told it does and that they didn't see why i couldn't do this but when i sent my paper work off to be evaluated i was told by the evaluator that his bosses told him he had to send me a letter to test. He also told me to go a head and send a letter of reconsideration because i should not have to test for this because of what the policy letter states. So i am trying to find out if any one has ever tried to do this before and if they did what happen.

[power230]

As you can see in the policy letter you stated. It does not state anywhere Chief OSV any horsepower. It states Chief OSV 4000 which you must meet the sea time requirement of a DDE 4000 and/or approved program/assesment. You can be issue enginner OSV any horsepower, but its not a Chief OSV any horsepower. You have to have a DDE unlimited to get Chief OSV any horsepower.

If it was that easy to upgrade to a chief OSV. Any horsepower. We wouldn't have half the fleet stuck with Chief OSV 4000 at Chouest. Besides the OSV endoresement you should upgrade the DDE regardless. You currently have a 4000 hp near coastal 500 ton. Get the unlimited and it's any horsepower 500 ton oceans. However the OSV side will be restricted to domestic near coastal voyages. If you have enough sea time get the Chief limited oceans and you wont need the OSV stuff anymore. You can sail ocean up to 3000 ITC.

I see what you are talking about. It does state that they may issue that upgrade without further testing. However if you look at the testing guide line and exam modules. They do offer only a Chief OSV exam which has electricity. I can see if you tested for your original using those modules and being given the upgrade with sea time only. But being if an individual get unlimited hp without using Chief OSV modules or DDE unlimited module isn't right at all. Just my opinion. DDE 4000 exam isn't any different than a QMED OILER exam and that person doesn't qaulify to meet a chief in my opinion. I held both DDE 4000 and DDE any horsepower and currently a chief limited oceans any hp. I personally have yet to see a DDE 4000 with a chief OSV any hp onboard any of our vessel. They were only issued Engineer osv any hp and chief osv 4000.
I have two DDE 4000 upgrading on my vessel and both have to get DDE unlimited for the Chief OSV any hp.