Hawsepipers: Why They’re Needed Now More Than Ever

[cappy208]

Ok to sum things up on a typical navy ship how many men turned out on a ship to fight a fire? Assuming in the 'navy way' each compartment had its own complement of firefighting capability, each compartment had it's own DC team, each compartment had self sufficiency. Compare that to the "total" DC, fire, safety equipment aboard ANY merchant vessel.

In my experience you could not even get TWO fully suited firemen fully equipped ready to go to fight a fire on the majority of: Tugs, Ferries, mini cruise ships, (or large cruise ships, since it seems the crews haul ass off them before trying to save passengers) Tankers, fishing boats and containerships.

That is what I was referring to, concerning the differences between the Navy and the Merchant Marine world. Not trying to be damning to either one, but pointing out the differences.

[New3M]

Hmm...did you just call me an idiot?! The reason I asked the question, (to RkyMnt Paul, not sure why you answered New3M),is because there was a lot of crap in the Navy and so I was trying to discern which crap he was referring to. Rest assured I ate a lot of shit sandwiches in the Navy and I've eaten a few in the commercial ship world as well. I've sailed commercial with many former Navy folks and I've never met one, including myself, that expected anyone to bow down to them because they were former Navy---I have heard sea-stories about such individuals though. If there are fomer Navy egotistical asses around, I submit it's because they're egotistical asses, not because they're former Navy. My first day as a commercial mariner was spent gripping down equipment with chain binders and sweeping decks, the only one bowing down was me--to reach the dustpan; and you know, I was right where I wanted to be!

You're only an idiot if your name is John...and I'm pretty sure it's not. I was just referring to a guy who I just sailed with - I threw him off the bridge one morning and told him to go F*&! himself because he was pissing me off and butting in where his opinion was neither needed nor warranted. He didn't like that so much and dressed me down (or attempted to) like I was some Seaman Apprentice on his watch. You have a point about him being an egotistical ass, but he's also one of those guys that doesn't really know what to do without the Navy (or someone) telling him what to do every second of the day. Case in point: after 3 months onboard, he STILL couldn't find the Bosun's locker. Nobody ever showed it to him...so why should he know where it is? There aren't any pencils or correction ink in there anyway.........

[New Orleans Lady]

excuse me gents, testing forum, as ours is broken still.

[chefedemaquina]

No offense to the grads, I am a hawespipe chief engineer, I recently had a QMED who was a SUNY grad with a 3rd asst. our company starts the grads as entry level because of lack of experiance. My 3rd asked him to get a ball peen hammer and he did not know what one was, again he was asked to get a chisel, he returned with a paint scrapper. A license is useless unless a person has the knowledge to use it. That goes both way's, I've had hawespipers who had no clue but could remember test questions. My 1st is a hawespiper and is a good engineer, my 3rd, another hawespiper, is another story. Experiance and knowledge of your job is everything.

[chefedemaquina]

I should also say, again no offense to the grads, my last relief chief was a grad, he was very smart, could cite any engineering formula and basically knew everything. But, someting got lost in translation between his brain and his hands. He wanted to do everything exactly like the book said, sorry, that won't work in the real world. during an emergency situation you have to rely on experiance not what a book says, sure, a lot of events happen just like the book says, but, as an engineer, you will learn, after 30 years as a seaman and 25 years as a chief engineer, you will see engine room fires, tail shafts snap and flood your engine room, collisions at sea, can't understand, wide open ocean and you run into another ship, go figure. How about changing out a power pack on the port main and the starboard main catching fire, happened going out Dixon entrance towing a seaway barge, a lot happens that only experiance can resolve.

[chefedemaquina]

Coastel Eagle Point, any relation to Coastal Transportation? We had an A/B on our tug who was a Cal Maritime grad, ended up being a mate on the Trader and then went into the office. Same co.

[cmakin]

I should also say, again no offense to the grads, my last relief chief was a grad, he was very smart, could cite any engineering formula and basically knew everything. But, someting got lost in translation between his brain and his hands. He wanted to do everything exactly like the book said, sorry, that won't work in the real world. during an emergency situation you have to rely on experiance not what a book says, sure, a lot of events happen just like the book says, but, as an engineer, you will learn, after 30 years as a seaman and 25 years as a chief engineer, you will see engine room fires, tail shafts snap and flood your engine room, collisions at sea, can't understand, wide open ocean and you run into another ship, go figure. How about changing out a power pack on the port main and the starboard main catching fire, happened going out Dixon entrance towing a seaway barge, a lot happens that only experiance can resolve.

I go back to what I posted above. I don't care and didn't when I was sailing if someone had a degree or not. I could cite engineers with degrees and that came from an academy who were some of the best engineers that I sailed with. I could also cite some that were absolutely worthless. Same goes for hawsepipers. I find that the actual mechanics of how they got their certification or on my crew to be less important than their attitude. Now, I can't speak for the state programs, but I can say that on the Federal level, with the commercial ship training afforded to cadets, go miles to at least expose the student to real world practicality. I would assume that the state schools at least go as far as to teach the basics. It is all up to the student and his or her attitude and willingness to learn that makes the difference. Me? As inferred, I got my training via KP. As to the way you ended your post, I have a couple of comments. Yeah, I have had to change power packs while underway. That is when you hope that they are forks, not blades. I have also had the odd engine fire, but not too severe. Good maintenance goes miles to prevent them. While I haven't had both at the same time, I would imagine that, even after 20 years ashore, I could get done what I needed to. Oh, and don't forget, don't throw out those books; there are things in there that just might help you out of a jam.