Any other hawswpipers?

[pwrmariner]

I am a hawsepiper, and my latest is getting my RFPEW. Has anyone else read policy 14-02 concerning RFPEW? It seems wiper, qmed's,..have to have rfpew. Question; How do you get the assessments when you cannot get on the vessel to get the assessments cause you need the assessments to get the assessments????
Training programs ha ha. Mid Atlantic-call them, Sea School limited to OSV but latest is NO INSTRUCTOR, Young Memorial last I checked NO INSTRUCTOR but again limited to osv anyway, MiTags Call them i had no luck, MPT-NOPE. I already took my qmed fowt class, and got the rating(s). Oh yeah take this scenario; 500grt vessel, 3200hp, highest license in the engine dept. DDE unlimited. No RFPEW there, has to be 2A/E or higher to sign off. Hawsepiper's are catch 22 out of RFPEW-HELP. Oh yeah does any one know of a vessel company that carries extra personnel other than SIU/Piney point? But if it is the scenario described above, it does not matter any way cause no one can sign off. The policy needs to be revised and or more schools need to have an approved course. And the sea time requirement-We'll if you meet the sea service for the Qmed that should be all you need for the RFPEW. Point is the way RFPEW is currently written, it is almost impossible for mariners to comply.
OH yeah take this scenario; A tug boat engineer DDE 4000, cannot have his co-worker who is also a DDE 4000 sign his Qmed Oiler assessments cause the license is not high enough. So if that person desired to become a Ship engineer, he could not do so cause he/she could not even sail on the vessel as a wiper to get the engineer assessments. Cause he/she would not have RFPEW assessments to get the assessments....help

[mike173]

OH yeah take this scenario; A tug boat engineer DDE 4000, cannot have his co-worker who is also a DDE 4000 sign his Qmed Oiler assessments cause the license is not high enough. So if that person desired to become a Ship engineer, he could not do so cause he/she could not even sail on the vessel as a wiper to get the engineer assessments. Cause he/she would not have RFPEW assessments to get the assessments....help

I'm not quite understanding the confusion here. I just read NVIC 14-02. Paragraph 5d states that the RFPEW applies to wipers standing regular engine room watches, or those that may be assigned to to stand watches as a regular member of the watch.

I've not seen a ship where wipers (DEU, GVA, etc.) stand watches. They are dayworkers, and hence not assigned as a "regular member of the watch". There shouldn't be an issue working as a day-working wiper to complete the assessments. In fact, on most modern ships, the entire engine department are non-watchstanders.

[tengineer]

If you're a member of the engine department you stand a watch in the engine room unless you're part of a riding gang or a contractor of some nature. No company is going to pay someone without them having watchstanding duties. I've never seen a discharge certificate or sea time letter saying someone was employed as a passenger, though in certain instances the case could be made.

[YoungEngineer]

Okay as a hawspiper here is my experiance to obtaining an RFPEW. I work for a dive company that operates in the GOM. When i was a QMED i worked under a 3 A/E Limited Chief and a 3 A/E straight out of maritime college. They were not assesors in any way shape or form. The wording in the policy letter is very grey and has alot of wording for (if, and, or, but) I had the two engineers that i work under sign my assessment sheets and sent them in to apply for an STCW at the same time. (NOTE: i did not submitt the steam assessments due to being a M/V only) Did i slip through the cracks and get lucky? I worked on a vessel of 4000 hp and was over 200 tons now if that played in it somehow i am not sure. Since the RFPEW is a free endorsment for the STCW it does not cost you anything but paperwork and time. What is the worst the REC center is going to do? After i obtained my STCW / RFPEW and was granted my DDE 4k I was given an OICEW automaticaly on my MMC. Im not sure if this will help you but this is how i obtained my RFPEW.

[pwrmariner]

USCG Policy 14-02
Dated 24 July 2002,
The web address is http://www.uscg.mil/nmc/marpers/pag/14-02.pdf Start around PAGE 30 for RFPEW

This enclosure provides guidance for engineering ratings to qualify for STCW certification as
a rating forming part of an engine room watch in a manned engine room or designated to
perform duties in a periodically unmanned engine room.
2. This enclosure applies to engineering ratings certificated as oiler, fireman/watertender, or
junior engineer, or to wipers standing engineering watches on vessels to which the full effects of
the STCW apply. It also applies to tho same ratings if they are part of the maintenance
department and may be assigned regular engine room watches if required.
3. Reference (b) requires all ratings forming part of an engineering watch on seagoing vessels
powered by main propulsion machinery of 750 kilowatts (kW) (1,000 horsepower [HP] or more)

to meet STCW standards.
PLEASE READ BELOW

be signed by the chief engineer, first assistant engineer, or an assistant engineer

who holds a license as second assistant engineer or higher.
Does not read to me as though there is any room for interpretation, ANY BODY ??
Please submit your comments, is there room for interpretation.
The company you were working for was sailing illegally the whole time you were working there, until after you got your rfpew. As this took effect in 2002 and you did not get out of the Army until 2006.

[YoungEngineer]

Wow. like i had stated i may have been one of the lucky ones that slipped through the cracks. I guess i can count myself lucky to have gotten this far. As for sailing illegally im not to sure about that one. According to the vessels COI (and it being a ISM/IMO) all that was required was a licensed engineer and wiper for the engine room department. Why STCW did not play in this is due to the vessel being restriced to the GOM. The rules do change when outside the GOM and it is harder to obtain a STCW. So i can understand your fusteration on trying to obtain this document. As for your question of who holds a second assistant engineer or higher. A DDE 4000 under the new MMC rules does. However he must hold a STCW, and OICEW endorment as well. The only reason i do know this to be fact is. I hold a DDE 4000 with STCW / OICEW and i hold domestic endorsment of 2nd 3rd assistant engineer, Assitant engineer LTD, DDE. This is how it looks on my MMC. Another thing that will aid you in obtaining your STCW is your sea time letter. If your company words the letter stating supervisory positon or equilvalint it shows the REC that you are holding a watch on the vessel under a licensed engineer. If this works anymore i am not sure however that is what my old sea time letters state. Oh i did not mention that both the engineers that i worked under had a STCW with OICEW endorsments so they did not have to be an assessor to sign off my assessment sheets. I wish i could help you out more but this has been my experiance so far and hopefully more years to come. BTW the dive company i work for is always looking for well trained QMED's. Mery Christmas and good luck to you on trying to obtain that endorsment.

FIX IT OR GO HOME

[pwrmariner]

STCW does not apply to GOM vessels? When I read the regulation(s) they state anything over 200grt and powered by main propulsion of 1,000hp or more and operate beyond the demarcation line....In other words STCW does apply to GOM vessels. Can any one else jump in here please.
You post in my other thread, states things have changed since 2007. One of those things you might be referring too is USCG policy 14-02, which came out July/2002. The only thing that has changed in that regard, is the enforcement. Which leads me to the NPRM Proposed Rule Changes, you should check that out!!

[Steamer]

"As for your question of who holds a second assistant engineer or higher. A DDE 4000 under the new MMC rules does. However he must hold a STCW, and OICEW endorment as well. The only reason i do know this to be fact is. I hold a DDE 4000 with STCW / OICEW and i hold international endorsment of 2nd 3rd assistant engineer, Assitant engineer LTD, DDE. This is how it looks on my MMC."

I could well be mistaken at the rate things are changing, but a DDE of any description, or a 3rd and 3nd unlimited are operational not management level certificates and are not equivalent to an "international 2nd or 3rd assistant." A second engineer in the international world of STCW is a 1st engineer in the US system and is a managment level certificate. The US 2nd or 3rd assistants are unlimited operational certificates and are called EOOW or Engineering Officer of Watch in STCW speak.

About the only equivalent a lower level engine license will get is a yacht endorsement by one of the Red Ensign group flags or maybe a RFPEW to sail as an unlicensed rating unless your STCW says A-III/2 on it somewhere.

[dougpine]

...and operate beyond the demarcation line....

Boundary line.

[fairtry]

I'm a hawspiper just starting out also, leaving the commercial fishing industry after 25 yrs. I'm taking my BST and lifeboat classes in a month or so to complete my A/B unlimited and 100 ton NC, going to apply for my twic card ,how long does it take to get this once you apply?this forum and the contributors are great,lots of usefull info thanks to all.

[pwrmariner]

how long does it take to receive the twic/mariner credentials?? Varies from mariner to mariner !! Almost every one of us has a sea story depicting a long waiting period to get our credentials/upgrades...It has gotten better though?! Your just going to have to go through the process and hope for the best if you want to sail. Whatever help that can give

[SaltySailor]

This whole question of RFPEW is something I find very annoying... I have over 180 days of sea-time in the engine room (wiper) but it was all domestic sea-time, I didn't even need a BST. I let my MMD lapse and I'm planning to either sit for the QMED FOWT exams at a REC or take an Approved Course in lieu of the exam.

Here are my two big questions:

Which is quicker? Approved Course or Exam? It seems I would have to re-apply for the MMC, have my letters of sea-time evaluated and then take the exam and wait for the results to be checked and a MMC with OS/FH/QMED FOWT to be issued from the USCG NMC. But an Approved Course with my application would be quicker.

Just how am I supposed to get the RFPEW signed off if I there are almost no jobs for wipers on deep-sea ships (except SIU controlled vessels)? And I was hoping to possibly go to the GOM on a large OSV to get the RFPEW assesments done... But It needs to be on a large ship with a 1st, 2nd and 3rd AE's? Or can a DDE sign-off on it?

Thanks in advance everybody!

[Kingrobby]

These are some of the same concerns I have and why I'm thinking of going to a school next year that gives the seatime AND the assessments for the QMED ratings & RFPEW. Assuming I pass the course I would just have to go the USCG and test, no sea time or assessments to get after the course before testing.

[cajuntugster]

welcome to the new merchant marine!!

[YoungEngineer]

Hello all it has been a while since i have logged on. I would like to make a correction to my previous post.
A DDE 4000 under the new MMC rules does. However he must hold a STCW, and OICEW endorment as well. The only reason i do know this to be fact is. I hold a DDE 4000 with STCW / OICEW and i hold international endorsment of 2nd 3rd assistant engineer, Assitant engineer LTD, DDE

After reviewing many things i have come to find out under the new STCW changes coming in July 2010 (maybee). That the 2nd and 3rd assistant is NOT INTERNATIONAL it is domestic and limited to 500 GRT near coastal. Sorry about the bad information on that post. After hours of talking to the NMC, and USCG the new STCW changes are restructering the engineering side. (so to speak) There will be no more DDE 1,000 it will be 2nd, 3rd, asst eng A/E Limited up to 4,000 HP. This will be on domestic vessels near coastal. After following the new chart and hours of mind numbing reading I have found that the NMC/USCG are structering the domestic side to mirror the Oceans side. So the chain can look something like this for a new mariner looking to go to the engine room.

Oiler (QMED)
3RD Engineer (under 4,000hp)
2ND Engineer (under 4,000hp)
DDE 4,0000 (all these steps are limited to domestic tonnage 500 GRT near coastal)

DDE AHP / A/E Limited Oceans (1,600 GRT 3,000 ITC) a DDE AHP is good for any waters and the A/E Limited Oceans you do qualify for but have to take the electrical exam. For those of you who are like me and have to start from square one. Electrical can be a pain in the you know what.

C/E Limited or 3rd A/E
both of these positions require testing and evaluation and is the next step in the chain after you obtain your DDE AHP.

There is a question i would like to answer also that was posted.

Just how am I supposed to get the RFPEW signed off if I there are almost no jobs for wipers on deep-sea ships (except SIU controlled vessels)? And I was hoping to possibly go to the GOM on a large OSV to get the RFPEW assesments done... But It needs to be on a large ship with a 1st, 2nd and 3rd AE's? Or can a DDE sign-off on it?

Yes a DDE 4,000 can sign off on your assesments. However the person holding the DDE 4,000 must have STCW / OICEW endorsment on thier license. If they don't your going to need someone with a bigger license to sign you off.

I am a hawspiper and have had to study many books that were hand me downs to pass the USCG exams. However just as some extra info for those of you starting out. My brother is attending school for QMED-Oiler a 9 day class, testing on the 9th day. He was informed that when he passes he will get a certificate mailed to him in 7 to 10 days that he can submitt to the USCG/NMC and obtain his ticket. This school was around $800.00 with meals and sleeping accomidations. After doing this there is no testing at the REC since it is now a USCG approved course. This can make things a bit easier for those of you just starting out. As for the RFPEW and getting your assesments singed off. This can be alot harder than sqeezing blood from a carrot. However if you do come across a DDE 4,000 just ask if they have STCW/OICEW endorsment, and your in. Hope this helps you all out, and again sorry for the bad info on the previous post.

YoungEngineer
Fix it or Go home

[pwrmariner]

the school your referring to for qmed is great, provided you desire to be limited to OSV's your whole career. If you have any desire or think you may have a desire to work on a AGT ship, you will have to go somewhere else for your qmed.

[Jolly Tar]

Attachment 750

Let there be NO question

[TxKingfisher]

linky no worky