"Person In Charge" of fuel transfer.

**BargeMonkey** · January 4th, 2013, 02:05 AM

Can anyone tell me, if there is a set amount of fuel you can transfer as the PIC, loading, discharging, ect, with just an engineers license before you would actually require a PIC endorsement ??? Got a little debate going, didnt know if there is a limit, or just covers the whole load/discharge ? I know this may be a dumb question...

**ForkandBlade** · January 4th, 2013, 03:22 AM

That isn't a dumb question at all. Most of the engineers on tugboats, that I know of, don't have any kind of PIC. Maybe it has something to do with the act of fueling and it not being cargo? Probably could find the answer on the NMC's website, by pulling up the different tankerman endorsement checklists and looking up CFR #s referenced.

**brjones** · January 4th, 2013, 07:28 AM

You do not need a PIC for bunkering.In fact at one time the REC's would not issue a pic to engineers.

**ForkandBlade** · January 4th, 2013, 08:14 AM

If you look at the different PIC endorsements, there is now an actual Engineer PIC endorsement. Obviously you don't need a PIC for fueling/bunkering but I think that's gonna be a requirement soon enough.

**jdcavo** · January 4th, 2013, 09:12 AM

Originally Posted by ForkandBlade

That isn't a dumb question at all. Most of the engineers on tugboats, that I know of, don't have any kind of PIC. Maybe it has something to do with the act of fueling and it not being cargo? Probably could find the answer on the NMC's website, by pulling up the different tankerman endorsement checklists and looking up CFR #s referenced.

See 33 CFR 155.710, in particular paragraphs (e)(1) and (e)(2).

You won't find it on NMC's web page (or shouldn't) as it a manning/compliance issue that is beyond NMC's responsibilities and expertise.

**jdcavo** · January 4th, 2013, 09:12 AM

Originally Posted by brjones

You do not need a PIC for bunkering.In fact at one time the REC's would not issue a pic to engineers.

They still won't if the only transfers the enghineer has are of fuel oil.

**Clear Solution** · January 4th, 2013, 10:21 AM

Ok so say the engineer has no license, but does have a "company pic" and the company designates the engineer as in charge of a fueling Operation and He has a spill. Is the masters ass on the line with the uscg because the engineer was unlicensed and has nothing to lose?

**jdcavo** · January 4th, 2013, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by ForkandBlade

If you look at the different PIC endorsements, there is now an actual Engineer PIC endorsement. Obviously you don't need a PIC for fueling/bunkering but I think that's gonna be a requirement soon enough.

Tankerman-Engineer has been around for almost 20 years.

**brjones** · January 4th, 2013, 12:24 PM

Yep I have had the tankerman engineer for a few years now

**BargeMonkey** · January 4th, 2013, 01:25 PM

I can only speak from the "uninspected" side of the tugs, but the title "chief" engineer is used very loosely. Some have a license but, alot still dont. I worked on a tug up north as an assistant that held over 200k gross for fuel, but have loaded a 5k bbl fuel barge in nyc, both holding the same amount, but whole different set of rules. Having personally watched 3 boats spill fuel across from me at IMTT, with only a minor slap on the wrist coming out of it, but if i did the same thing on the barge, i would have my ankles to my ear lobes.

**highseasmechanic** · January 4th, 2013, 04:50 PM

For those engineers that work on tankers, might as well get your PIC. It isn't to difficult to talk to the Chief mate about being there for the pre-transfer conference, commencements, completions and calculating the rates.